Next Big Stallion? What is your opinion?

[Betsy]

Cunningham, my question to you re: Mineshaft:

No matter how ugly/awkward/ etc.......his offspring appear to be now, don't you think breeders will at least wait until they run before judging him? Ok, maybe he won't sire the big, good-looking horses that sell well, but he is was still a superior racehorse with a superior pedigree and still has every right to be a great sire. Are stud fees set based on expected yearling sales prices or racetrack performance? If the former, then based on the lack of buzz, I guess I can understand why his stud fee would go down. However, isn't it still all about performance? How can any farm manager who dislikes Mineshaft's foals possibly even know whether they can run or not?I guess what I don't understand is that he was very highly regarded coming off the track; he was expected to be AP Indy's successor. Why is that not still possible? It makes no sense. Mineshaft hasn't lost his genetic ability between the time he retired and now - his pedigree is still the same. What is different, other than his foals are not precocious?

I would sincerely hope that, since Mineshaft was AP Indy's best horse (although Pulpit was right up there - he was brilliant) and the best hope to carry on the Bold Ruler line (what are the odds on Vindication being anywhere near as good as Indy at stud? Not very good, no matter how nice his foals are), breeders will at least give him a shot to suceeed before calling him a dud and forcing Lane's End to send him to Japan. How depressing -IMO,Mineshaft is still a better prospect at stud than Empire Maker and before he even gets off the ground, he's already deemed a failure.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Betsy

Cunningham, my question to you re: Mineshaft:

No matter how ugly/awkward/ etc.......his offspring appear to be now, don't you think breeders will at least wait until they run before judging him? Ok, maybe he won't sire the big, good-looking horses that sell well, but he is was still a superior racehorse with a superior pedigree and still has every right to be a great sire. Are stud fees set based on expected yearling sales prices or racetrack performance? If the former, then based on the lack of buzz, I guess I can understand why his stud fee would go down. However, isn't it still all about performance? How can any farm manager who dislikes Mineshaft's foals possibly even know whether they can run or not?I guess what I don't understand is that he was very highly regarded coming off the track; he was expected to be AP Indy's successor. Why is that not still possible? It makes no sense. Mineshaft hasn't lost his genetic ability between the time he retired and now - his pedigree is still the same. What is different, other than his foals are not precocious?

I would sincerely hope that, since Mineshaft was AP Indy's best horse (although Pulpit was right up there - he was brilliant) and the best hope to carry on the Bold Ruler line (what are the odds on Vindication being anywhere near as good as Indy at stud? Not very good, no matter how nice his foals are), breeders will at least give him a shot to suceeed before calling him a dud and forcing Lane's End to send him to Japan. How depressing -IMO,Mineshaft is still a better prospect at stud than Empire Maker and before he even gets off the ground, he's already deemed a failure.

it may not be that they are ugly/awkward but actually twisted/crooked--he may have a lot of foals getting their ankles done, or they may be over or back @ the knee etc...not that I have actually seen his foals but it's a possiblity. If they are seeing serious faults in a large sample of his get that can be a problem. Happens all the time with some of the best, how often do you hear someone say 'he's very correct for a storm cat'....

[ddthetide]

smarty jones was a very good horse and had great determination.
afleet alex, i think, had more overall talent and just as much if not more determination.he could have been a great horse. i'd love to seen alex on the turf!
if they can pass along their determination qualities, their youngster will do well.

This is interesting, but it kind of makes me sick. I watch racing to see athletes run.

A sample of my nausea, a direct quote from Bloodhorse, Throroughbred Champions of the 20th century:

Easy Goer died at the age of eight after having sired JUST 136 foals in four years. The son of Alydar didn't have enough time to PROVE HIS WORTH...

Alrighty then. WTF is this supposed to mean?

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by pgardn

This is interesting, but it kind of makes me sick. I watch racing to see athletes run.

A sample of my nausea, a direct quote from Bloodhorse, Throroughbred Champions of the 20th century:

Easy Goer died at the age of eight after having sired JUST 136 foals in four years. The son of Alydar didn't have enough time to PROVE HIS WORTH...

Alrighty then. WTF is this supposed to mean?

In the first few years a stallion is at stud, breeders often have no idea about which type of mares will go best with him. Early in his stud career, Damascus was expected to sire stamina, so he was given speedy mares but it turned out that Big D sired his dam's speed and needed staying mares to sire anything more than sprinters. With his early death, Easy Goer didn't get a chance to get the adjustment to his matings that would have given him the best shot as a stallion.

[Thoroughbred Fan]

Dance With Ravens might be the heir apparent to AP Indy. It will take several years to tell, but he is by A.P. Indy and out of a champion mare from a family that has already produced the top stallion Smart Strike. His first two dams are Champions and he was a Graded stakes winner on both turf and dirt in an injury shortened career. He is just 4 and has already serviced a full book. If he has success early his books will get much better and he'll still be very young.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

I'll say it once...ORIENTATE. His foals can RUN! I have seen so many that I like. I know that he was mostly a sprinter on dirt, but he also won stakes on the turf at a mile. I really like this horse. He was also sound upon retiring and he is a very classy looking animal.

I think Afleet Alex will become a very, very good sire also.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I'll say it once...ORIENTATE. His foals can RUN! I have seen so many that I like. I know that he was mostly a sprinter on dirt, but he also won stakes on the turf at a mile. I really like this horse. He was also sound upon retiring and he is a very classy looking animal.

I think Afleet Alex will become a very, very good sire also.

I agree with Jessica about Orientate. From what I have seen at the 2 year old sales this year, Orientate's offspring look great. I think he will be the hot new sire.

[Antitrust32]

I think that Point Given will be the next super stud. If Barbaro stays on the right track and can breed, he has the look of a great stallion. Also Bernardini from this crop and First Samuria could have a lot of potential. Kitten's Joy should be a good turf sire.

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

In the first few years a stallion is at stud, breeders often have no idea about which type of mares will go best with him. Early in his stud career, Damascus was expected to sire stamina, so he was given speedy mares but it turned out that Big D sired his dam's speed and needed staying mares to sire anything more than sprinters. With his early death, Easy Goer didn't get a chance to get the adjustment to his matings that would have given him the best shot as a stallion.

You prove your racing worth on the track.
The money worth... is worthless.
Stating Easy Goer did not have a chance to prove his worth is a little statement Bloodhorse should suck back up like a hanging snot rocket.

Let em run.

[sumitas]

i'd like to see Pink Duck get a shot.

What about Barbaro? He won on turf and dirt and at different distances. Afleet Alex also comes to mind. I also think Golden Missle could be a good stallion. And you also have Awesome Again. I think there are several good ones.

Originally Posted by sumitas

i'd like to see Pink Duck get a shot.

He's a gelding........

Originally Posted by pgardn

You prove your racing worth on the track.
The money worth... is worthless.
Stating Easy Goer did not have a chance to prove his worth is a little statement Bloodhorse should suck back up like a hanging snot rocket.

Let em run.

Skip Away won alot of races and alot of money ON THE TRACK. As a stud, Skip Away is a BIG DUD.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by pgardn

This is interesting, but it kind of makes me sick. I watch racing to see athletes run.

A sample of my nausea, a direct quote from Bloodhorse, Throroughbred Champions of the 20th century:

Easy Goer died at the age of eight after having sired JUST 136 foals in four years. The son of Alydar didn't have enough time to PROVE HIS WORTH...

Alrighty then. WTF is this supposed to mean?

Pgardn, if you like Easy Goer (as I did), you may like this guy...

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/isd...ion_no=1422500

[sumitas]

i believe Desert Warrior in NY has the pedigree to have a chance to make some waves.