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  #1  
Old 04-13-2022, 12:11 PM
v j stauffer
 
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Originally Posted by Dahoss View Post
Lukas made the switch one race too late.

Nothing against Contreras, but he's not Saez.
Take off a guy who had just won 3 in a row on her? Two of them Stakes. And worked her every time she breezed for three months?

I don't know any trainer that would make that change.
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  #2  
Old 04-13-2022, 12:43 PM
Dahoss Dahoss is offline
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Originally Posted by v j stauffer View Post
Take off a guy who had just won 3 in a row on her? Two of them Stakes. And worked her every time she breezed for three months?

I don't know any trainer that would make that change.
Steve Asmussen did with Echo Zulu.

After her race in the Honeybee I suggested right here on this board that her rider would eventually get her beat. He tried to get too cute in the Honeybee and almost got her in trouble. Now, I don’t think she was ever winning the Arkansas Derby but his inability to maintain position and getting beat to two different spots, coupled with the slingshot move prevented her from running 2nd IMO.

She deserves a top rider. Contreras isn’t one. It’s an easy choice.
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  #3  
Old 04-13-2022, 12:54 PM
blackthroatedwind blackthroatedwind is offline
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Originally Posted by Dahoss View Post
Steve Asmussen did with Echo Zulu.

After her race in the Honeybee I suggested right here on this board that her rider would eventually get her beat. He tried to get too cute in the Honeybee and almost got her in trouble. Now, I don’t think she was ever winning the Arkansas Derby but his inability to maintain position and getting beat to two different spots, coupled with the slingshot move prevented her from running 2nd IMO.

She deserves a top rider. Contreras isn’t one. It’s an easy choice.
Wayne's attitude has always been correct. He doesn't owe Contreras anything. He was always going to be one mediocre ride away from getting replaced. Why shouldn't he have been?

It's not like he has given Ethereal Road good rides in his last two races either.
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  #4  
Old 04-13-2022, 01:19 PM
v j stauffer
 
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Originally Posted by Dahoss View Post
Steve Asmussen did with Echo Zulu.

After her race in the Honeybee I suggested right here on this board that her rider would eventually get her beat. He tried to get too cute in the Honeybee and almost got her in trouble. Now, I don’t think she was ever winning the Arkansas Derby but his inability to maintain position and getting beat to two different spots, coupled with the slingshot move prevented her from running 2nd IMO.

She deserves a top rider. Contreras isn’t one. It’s an easy choice.
I'm not disagreeing with the change now.

I'm saying that before the Arkansas Derby the was NO reason to make a change.
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  #5  
Old 04-13-2022, 01:29 PM
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RolloTomasi RolloTomasi is offline
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Originally Posted by v j stauffer View Post
before the Arkansas Derby the was NO reason to make a change.
...other than giving the horse the best opportunity to earn points towards the Derby with an eye towards starting in the Derby.

Might not have been a popular move had he done so, but John Sadler did the same with Rock Your World last year in the big race itself.

Of course, that move might have actually been part of Sadler's grand plan of derailing the rest of the horse's career. If so, it was a master stroke given Joel Rosario's complete ineptness.
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Old 04-13-2022, 01:33 PM
v j stauffer
 
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Originally Posted by RolloTomasi View Post
...other than giving the horse the best opportunity to earn points towards the Derby with an eye towards starting in the Derby.

Might not have been a popular move had he done so, but John Sadler did the same with Rock Your World last year in the big race itself.

Of course, that move might have actually been part of Sadler's grand plan of derailing the rest of the horse's career. If so, it was a master stroke given Joel Rosario's complete ineptness.
I didn't think the ride in the Arkansas Derby was that horrible. Seemed to me like he'd had it beaten into his head not to move to early. He probably waited too long. It could very well have cost him second. Nobody that's ever ridden would have got her up to beat CYBERKNIFE that day.
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  #7  
Old 04-13-2022, 01:37 PM
blackthroatedwind blackthroatedwind is offline
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Originally Posted by v j stauffer View Post
I didn't think the ride in the Arkansas Derby was that horrible. Seemed to me like he'd had it beaten into his head not to move to early. He probably waited too long. It could very well have cost him second. Nobody that's ever ridden would have got her up to beat CYBERKNIFE that day.
It was a dreadful ride. He made the opposite move that Florent did when he effectively won the race on the backstretch, losing valuable position when the race was slowing down....and then rushing wide on the turn. He also gave up position around the first turn that ended up putting him in bad position thereafter.

She likely would have finished second, but there is an outside chance she could have won, and all of these things were the rider's fault. I'm not trying to crucify him, as these things happen, but to suggest his ride in Arkansas Derby wasn't poor is to fail to acknowledge what happened in the race.
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  #8  
Old 04-13-2022, 01:44 PM
v j stauffer
 
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Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind View Post
It was a dreadful ride. He made the opposite move that Florent did when he effectively won the race on the backstretch, losing valuable position when the race was slowing down....and then rushing wide on the turn. He also gave up position around the first turn that ended up putting him in bad position thereafter.

She likely would have finished second, but there is an outside chance she could have won, and all of these things were the rider's fault. I'm not trying to crucify him, as these things happen, but to suggest his ride in Arkansas Derby wasn't poor is to fail to acknowledge what happened in the race.
I said that it wasn't horrible in that I didn't think she would have won.

I agree he shouldn't have given up the position he had at the half mile pole.

You can even hear in my call. I couldn't believe that was her 3 lengths last at the 3/8th's pole.

As I've said that struck me as a jock who had been told not to move too early and didn't think on his feet enough to change tactics when circumstances dictated.

Could it have been better? 100% yes. Was it a travesty? That in my mind would only apply if I thought he cost her the win which I don't.
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  #9  
Old 04-13-2022, 01:31 PM
blackthroatedwind blackthroatedwind is offline
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Originally Posted by v j stauffer View Post
I'm not disagreeing with the change now.

I'm saying that before the Arkansas Derby the was NO reason to make a change.
Actually, there was. If I owned her, I would have replaced the rider before he cost her a win. There's a lot of money at stake. It was nice of Wayne not to, but the actual right thing to do was to have moved on.

I get that it's unfair to Contreras in that situation, but every owner has the right to get the rider he or she is most comfortable with.
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  #10  
Old 04-13-2022, 01:37 PM
v j stauffer
 
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Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind View Post
Actually, there was. If I owned her, I would have replaced the rider before he cost her a win. There's a lot of money at stake. It was nice of Wayne not to, but the actual right thing to do was to have moved on.

I get that it's unfair to Contreras in that situation, but every owner has the right to get the rider he or she is most comfortable with.
I don't even look at it as unfair to Contreras. He got paid for the wins. Loyalty in this business means nothing. Nor should it. Especially at that level.

I think they rode the rider they thought would give them the best chance on that day. And now they think Saez will give them the best chance in KY.

I DO NOT think she would have beaten CYBERKNIFE no matter who rode her in the Arkansas Derby. Could she have been 2nd? Definitely.

Could she have won? Not in my opinion.
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