Imprimis

[NoLuvForPletch]

It’s been a great 40 years of enjoying horse racing, but I think I am done. Watching the stewards lack of consistency has hit the tipping point for me today with the DQ of Imprimis. I feel terrible for the owner, trainer and Jose. They stole a Graded Stakes win from this horse for no reason. Also feel bad for the bettors that pay the price far too often. Yes I bet him. Yes it cost me a lot. I really feel like the overhead showed the 1 clear of the 4 and it was a pretty good acting job by Irad. And the 1 won so easily, there was absolutely no reason to put the 2 up for the win because a gelding with no breeding future might have been cost 2nd place in a 200k stakes race. You steal $110k from the connections of the 1 for that? It’s a 16k difference between 2nd and 3rd. WTF????

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

It’s been a great 40 years of enjoying horse racing, but I think I am done. Watching the stewards lack of consistency has hit the tipping point for me today with the DQ of Imprimis. I feel terrible for the owner, trainer and Jose. They stole a Graded Stakes win from this horse for no reason. Also feel bad for the bettors that pay the price far too often. Yes I bet him. Yes it cost me a lot. I really feel like the overhead showed the 1 clear of the 4 and it was a pretty good acting job by Irad. And the 1 won so easily, there was absolutely no reason to put the 2 up for the win because a gelding with no breeding future might have been cost 2nd place in a 200k stakes race. You steal $110k from the connections of the 1 for that? It’s a 16k difference between 2nd and 3rd. WTF????

You say consistency yet based on the DQ last Saturday this was the right call.

Getting DQ’d sucks. I get it. But the 1 came over on the 4, who in turn came over on the 6 who lost all chance.

They don’t DQ based on breeding futures.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

You say consistency yet based on the DQ last Saturday this was the right call.

Getting DQ’d sucks. I get it. But the 1 came over on the 4, who in turn came over on the 6 who lost all chance.

They don’t DQ based on breeding futures.

Then they should have put the 1 behind the 6, they did not. Additionally, Irad moves the 4 out first so he could see the 1. I didn’t mean to imply breeding futures played any role as I know they do not. The 2 wasn’t impacted and benefited most. The difference it made to move the 4 from 3rd to 2nd is minimal.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

Then they should have put the 1 behind the 6, they did not. Additionally, Irad moves the 4 out first so he could see the 1. I didn’t mean to imply breeding futures played any role as I know they do not. The 2 wasn’t impacted and benefited most. The difference it made to move the 4 from 3rd to 2nd is minimal.

I agree the 1 should’ve been placed behind the 6.

Truthfully the only way to settle a lot of this is big fines for riders and serious suspensions. $500 fines are nothing to guys making millions a year. And suspensions don’t mean a thing when you can appeal them and then take them when you want.

Force some of these guys to sit out the Breeders Cup or another big day and I bet some of this nonsense ends quickly.

[NoLuvForPletch]

What occurred in yesterday’s 8th race with Silky Blue in the stretch was significantly worse than what happened today. Yesterday, no change. Today, horse who was much the best gets DQd.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

What occurred in yesterday’s 8th race with Silky Blue in the stretch was significantly worse than what happened today. Yesterday, no change. Today, horse who was much the best gets DQd.

Yeah that’s not true.

This is almost the exact same thing that happened in the Bowling Green last weekend. There was a DQ there.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Yeah that’s not true.

This is almost the exact same thing that happened in the Bowling Green last weekend. There was a DQ there.

So you watch yesterday and today’s races and feel today’s incident was more egregious?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

So you watch yesterday and today’s races and feel today’s incident was more egregious?

Yes. Look, I got DQ’d opening day. I get the frustration.

Your horse came over and cost the 4 a placing and possibly the 6. You did nothing wrong, you picked the right horse. Jose messed up flashing the whip right handed. He was much the best, he didn’t need to do that.

Did you watch the Bowling Green? Isn’t it basically the same thing?

[NoLuvForPletch]

Yes. The Price Talk takedown was a disgrace. As I said, there is no consistency. That incident was to teach a lesson, not because a horse was cost a placing. If Irad would have just ridden his horse instead of overreacting, he would have finished 2nd and that would have been that. The Sadlers’s Joy takedown probably warranted. Shitty but warranted.

[Dahoss]

If you think Sadler’s Joy was warranted this is the same thing.

I’m with you on the consistency. This meet they have been consistent.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Castellano flashed his whip repeatedly, hit SJ multiple times right handed, squeezed multiple horses and barely won. The horse that was put up was directly impacted. Today, Jose flashed his whip and hit his horse once, came in, won by open lengths and the horse they put up for the win was not impacted. Not the same thing.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

Castellano flashed his whip repeatedly, hit SJ multiple times right handed, squeezed multiple horses and barely won. The horse that was put up was directly impacted. Today, Jose flashed his whip and hit his horse once, came in, won by open lengths and the horse they put up for the win was not impacted. Not the same thing.

The horse that was put up was 3rd best. You admit Imprimis came in. He impacted the 3rd finisher who just missed second.

It’s exactly the same thing. Sorry you lost but it was the right call.

The stewards were consistent based on what they did in the Bowling Green

[moses]

I thought the 4 came over initially on the 1...so I see that...but obviously the 1 came in as well. Not sure he should have got taken down because you could make the case the 4 cost himself the placing but moot point.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

Yes. The Price Talk takedown was a disgrace. As I said, there is no consistency. That incident was to teach a lesson, not because a horse was cost a placing. If Irad would have just ridden his horse instead of overreacting, he would have finished 2nd and that would have been that. The Sadlers’s Joy takedown probably warranted. Shitty but warranted.

The Price Talk DQ was a disgrace? Please stop. All of these DQs were warranted, including yesterday's, though given the significant win yesterday, I could see leaving it up, but it was nowhere close to either inconsistent or a horrible decision. Yes, not placing Imprimis behind the 6, once you made the call, was indefensible, but that doesn't make the actual takedowns poor.

All takedowns aren't bad, or the worst ever, and painful as some are, they are frequently legitimate.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The Price Talk DQ was a disgrace? Please stop. All of these DQs were warranted, including yesterday's, though given the significant win yesterday, I could see leaving it up, but it was nowhere close to either inconsistent or a horrible decision. Yes, not placing Imprimis behind the 6, once you made the call, was indefensible, but that doesn't make the actual takedowns poor.

All takedowns aren't bad, or the worst ever, and painful as some are, they are frequently legitimate.

I think the point I am making is that the decisions being made are completely arbitrary, like pass interference. Fouls are only declared fouls if they fit some criteria in that moment in time. The actions by the jockey in the Price Talk DQ and Silky Blue non-DQ we’re almost identical. And neither cost anyone a placing. Yet they found the implementation of the DQ not warranted in only one. Why?

I still contend yesterday’s DQ was a poor decision for 2 reasons. 1. It is clear the 4 moved out towards the 1 first. You can not argue that point. 2. The overhead from the WinStar cam, showed me anyhow, that the 1 was clear if not just about clear of the 4 when he shifted in. Again, I bet the 1 so perhaps I am seeing things, but it didn’t even look like the 1 made actual contact with the 4 while the pan view made it look more closer to the action that occurred in the Bowling Green.

A few questions. Do the stewards have access to the overhead? Do the stewards explain their decisions in NY like they do in other states, and if so, where can I find that?

[blackthroatedwind]

The decisions aren't even remotely arbitrary. I'm sorry you got taken down. This one isn't even in the million of bad DQs.

[PeteMugg]

Sorry, but I still don’t see this as the right call. 2, 4, and 6 were all moving out even with right hand urging. At an earlier point the 4 came out on 1 and the 1 accommodated. I guess Jose should have stood his ground and took the bump. Hell, take ‘em all down.

[Dahoss]

I’m not trying to be rude but I feel like I’m watching a different race than some of you. The 4 didn’t come out into the 1.

The 1 shied in when Jose flashed the whip. He hit the 4, who in turn closed the door on the 6 that had to check. The 4 was cost a placing and probably the 6.

Jose knew he messed up because he looked to his left as he did it.

[PeteMugg]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I’m not trying to be rude but I feel like I’m watching a different race than some of you. The 4 didn’t come out into the 1.

The 1 shied in when Jose flashed the whip. He hit the 4, who in turn closed the door on the 6 that had to check. The 4 was cost a placing and probably the 6.

Jose knew he messed up because he looked to his left as he did it.

It was earlier in the stretch before the inquiry. 4 came out and 1 gave him room. It was no big deal only because Jose gave space.
Poor Irad in the wrong spot again. He would’ve cost a lesser horse than Hieroglyphics the fourth race.