Lukas down to 40 horses

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by cakes44

I don't need a trainer's license to know that every time I bet one of his horses(or even just watch), the horse runs like a scalded dog either on the lead or pressing for most of the race, then folds up like a cheap suit at the quarter pole. His horses are rarely in the shape they need to be in order to win whatever races they are entered, and almost none of them know how to relax, whether they are trained that way, or the jockey is instructed that way by DWL.

every time?! that's a sweeping generalization, isn't it? the man has won everything you can win, some races many times over...he was at the top of this game for many many years. no one can sustain a career at the very top for ever. he set the bar incredibly high-so high that even he couldn't sustain that pace. but then, who can?

Time has mellowed me toward Mr. Lukas. I prefer to think of him as the trainer of one of my all-time favorites Serena's Song, and keep it at that. DWL kept her racing at the highest level as one of the best distaffers in recent memory. He had to be doing something right.

If the media followed Cole Norman or Steve Assmussen around (as much as they did Lukas in his prime), and reported/or kept track of all the horses they break down AND give heart attacks to, their rate would exceed Mr. Lukas' tenfold. They make Wayne look like a saint.

Originally Posted by Cardus

And earlier in this thread, someone -- or perhaps a few people -- mentioned that Lukas places his horse's over their heads.

Do you remember when EVERYONE panned Lukas for running Serena's Song -- one of my favorites, too -- in the Black-Eyed Susan after she was scorched in the Derby after setting grueling fractions? NO ONE thought it was a good idea.

She rolled by nine.

Yes, I remember that. How about running Surfside against the boys in the Clark, thus her winning the Eclipse as best three-year-old filly! I think he has been particularly strong with fillies.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cardus

He has been exceptional with fillies at both two and three-year-olds. Numerous times he dominated the BC Juvenile Fillies... one of my favorites was when Flanders and Serena's Song dueled through the Churchill Downs stretch in '94.

"Don't count Flanders out yet!"

What a race!

What was even more exciting about that was the complete disinterest Lukas showed in Flanders after the race when she broke down.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

What was even more exciting about that was the complete disinterest Lukas showed in Flanders after the race when she broke down.

What did you want him to do?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

What did you want him to do?

Give a **** that his filly just broke down.

But hey, that's just me, a goofy softy.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I don't know if Lukas did that or not, because I didn't see it. But you would think a normal reaction would be to run to the horses aid. Like Matz did with Barbaro.

Who is to say what a normal reaction is. Maybe isnt the type of person to rush to aid. Maybe he was stunned. Who knows, but to say that he didnt care without knowing what was going on in his mind is very calous. Who even knows when Lukas knew that Flanders was hurt. The horse wins and gallops out - the last thing on his mind was the possibility of the horse being injured. It wasnt like an injury to Barbaro where the horse was pulled up.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

What was even more exciting about that was the complete disinterest Lukas showed in Flanders after the race when she broke down.

If I remember, the vets did an amazing job to save the filly's life. It was a very complicated surgery and they were lucky to save her. The vets explained to the press exactly what they did. So when the press asked Lukas about the fillies condition, they were shocked when Lukas said that she was fine and acted like what happened was no big deal. He acted like the horse wasn't even hurt bad and that she was never in any grave danger. When the press told Lukas that the vets said they were lucky to save her, Lukas said something to the effect of 'Those vets always exaggerate and act like a horse's condition was much worse than it was, just so they can take credit and make people think that they can walk on water.'

Lukas wasn't even appreciative about what the vets had done to save his horse. It was more important for him to downplay the injury in order to take the focus off the vets and put it back on him for wiining those big races.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cardus

As soon as I posted, I was waiting for someone to write, "You could count her out immediately after the race," or something like that.

That isn't at all what I said and what I was referring to was a well known incident where Lukas showed callous disregard for his horse's welfare on national TV after she had just broken down. John Veitch, who was commentating, was unimpressed with Lukas's nonchalance as well as I recall.

At least I give Lukas credit for not being a phony.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

That isn't at all what I said and what I was referring to was a well known incident where Lukas showed callous disregard for his horse's welfare on national TV after she had just broken down. John Veitch, who was commentating, was unimpressed with Lukas's nonchalance as well as I recall.

At least I give Lukas credit for not being a phony.

Frankel isn't everyone's cup of tea, but one of the reasons I like him is the fact that he has so much emotion over the horses he cares for. Zito is the same way, ask him about a horse under his care and his face lights up.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Frankel isn't everyone's cup of tea, but one of the reasons I like him is the fact that he has so much emotion over the horses he cares for. Zito is the same way, ask him about a horse under his care and his face lights up.

ok, so now lukas doesn't care about horses? he sat on the stall floor with landaluces head in his lap, crying while she died after they did everything they could for her. how often do you think someone can go thru that kind of stuff before they start trying to shield themselves? breakdowns are a part of this sport, as we are all aware. but everyone trying to demonize dwl for not showing emotion might want to re-think all that.

it appears that i was too late in mentioning this story, as others already did so. funny tho how some have an answer for everything, especially when it doesn't fit into their idea of how dwl may or may not be...

[GinaIsWild]

Wayne Lukas is the best thing to ever happen to thoroughbred Racing. He revolutionized the business.

His single greatest accomplishment however was taking a bowed mare and winning a Grade 1 with her off a layoff, after her previous trainer demonized him for even attempting a comeback with a horse she classified as finished. He made her eat those words, and silenced the critics.

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

Originally Posted by Jfeld

Wayne Lukas is the best thing to ever happen to thoroughbred Racing. He revolutionized the business.

His single greatest accomplishment however was taking a bowed mare and winning a Grade 1 with her off a layoff, after her previous trainer demonized him for even attempting a comeback with a horse she classified as finished. He made her eat those words, and silenced the critics.

LOL the best thing ever huh? well your entitled to your opinion. my trainers had 3 horses this year coming off bows. 2 won 1st time back and last week the most recent ran 2nd. lord of the game also had a bow and won how many races. this is not uncommon

[GinaIsWild]

Originally Posted by disappearingdan_akaplaya

LOL the best thing ever huh? well your entitled to your opinion. my trainers had 3 horses this year coming off bows. 2 won 1st time back and last week the most recent ran 2nd. lord of the game also had a bow and won how many races. this is not uncommon

With all due respect to your Hawthorne connections, turning Azeri around is a much more impressive feat.

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

Originally Posted by Jfeld

With all due respect to your Hawthorne connections, turning Azeri around is a much more impressive feat.

i wasnt trying to compare feats lol between claimers and azeri, was just stating it isnt uncommon. by the way are you aware how much talent and heart azeri had before she was layed upLOL? luka$$ didnt bring the talent outta her

[GinaIsWild]

Originally Posted by disappearingdan_akaplaya

i wasnt trying to compare feats lol between claimers and azeri, was just stating it isnt uncommon. by the way are you aware how much talent and heart azeri had before she was layed upLOL? luka$$ didnt bring the talent outta her

Lukas MADE her a star. She was finished and he stepped up to the plate, laid those magic hands on her and turned her into the champion she became.

[ManilaRose]

Originally Posted by Jfeld

With all due respect to your Hawthorne connections, turning Azeri around is a much more impressive feat.

Turned her around? Yes, I'll never forget the brilliant job he did finding a spot in which she was defeated by a MONSTER like Mayo On The Side.

[The Bid]

Wayne has taken his time with Westwon, his derby horse this year.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

every time?! that's a sweeping generalization, isn't it? the man has won everything you can win, some races many times over...he was at the top of this game for many many years. no one can sustain a career at the very top for ever. he set the bar incredibly high-so high that even he couldn't sustain that pace. but then, who can?

In another post you compared him to an athlete such as Michael Jordan. The proper comparison would be to a coach, not an athlete. Trainers and coaches don't lose their skills when they turn 70. I don't think his downfall has anything to do with his age.

As I've said a number of times before, Lukas was way ahead of his time when it came to pharmacology. He was one of the only guys that had all of his horses on steroids back in the 1980s. Now all trainers pretty much use steroids. Do you have any idea what a huge advantage you would have if you were the only one using steroids? All of Lukas' 2 year olds were as big and strong as 3 year olds. His 3 year olds were physically as mature as 4 year olds. That's why he was winning everything in sight. Before you knew it, he had all the biggest owners. He was outspending everyone by 10x.

But once all the other trainers got caught up in terms of pharmacology, Lukas no longer had an advantage. He's been slowing going downhill ever since.

You keep saying that nobody can stay on top forever. We know that. Nobody expects someone to stay on top forever. But this isn't just a case of someone no longer being on top. This is a case of someone going from the top to the bottom. His win percentage is under 10%. And he still gets very good horses. He gets better stock than 99% of the guys out there. For the stock he gets, he does terrible.

Anyway, he has a terrible reputation for a reason. If you bring up his name around other trainers, they just shake their head in disgust. And it's certainly not out of jealousy. If they were going to be jealous, they would be jealous of the guys who are successful today such as Frankel, Mott, Pletcher, etc. If you bring up any of these names, people don't shake their heads in disgust.