'17 CROWN TRAIL THREAD: Always Dreaming; Cloud Computing; Tapwrit

[blackthroatedwind]

I'm not interested in the chart. I watched the race, and particularly the start, quite a few times. Nobody got "crushed." Hyperbole is a dangerous thing.

If people rely on the chart comments in KY for their wagering decisions, they are broke.

[taxicab]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I'm not interested in the chart. I watched the race, and particularly the start, quite a few times. Nobody got "crushed." Hyperbole is a dangerous thing.

If people rely on the chart comments in KY for their wagering decisions, they are broke.

Well....
You asked for me "to point out one horse that even steadied hard".
I gave you six.
Far from hyperbole.........all I did was point out the facts.
Considering you watched the race,I'm quite surprised you can't see the obvious.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by taxicab

Well....
You asked for me "to point out one horse that even steadied hard".
I gave you six.
Far from hyperbole.........all I did was point out the facts.
Considering you watched the race,I'm quite surprised you can't see the obvious.

No, you quoted a chart. I watched the race. Nobody got "crushed." There was some bumping. It's a 20 horse field going 1 1/4. All things considered, there wasn't a significant amount of trouble.

What hurt Classic Empire most about the bumping was that it cost him position, something that was very valuable in this particular race. Couple that with him being forced to rally wide, and there's a more than reasonable argument that he ran the second best race.

IMO, it's best to focus on what actually happened, and how it may have affected the horses involved. Horses have trouble all the time that ultimately proves irrelevant.

[taxicab]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

No, you quoted a chart. I watched the race. Nobody got "crushed." There was some bumping. It's a 20 horse field going 1 1/4. All things considered, there wasn't a significant amount of trouble.

What hurt Classic Empire most about the bumping was that it cost him position, something that was very valuable in this particular race. Couple that with him being forced to rally wide, and there's a more than reasonable argument that he ran the second best race.

IMO, it's best to focus on what actually happened, and how it may have affected the horses involved. Horses have trouble all the time that ultimately proves irrelevant.

Everybody watched the race........come on.
And everybody saw with their own eyes the bumper car chain reaction caused by IWC.
I just presented the chart and some of the quotes because they were accurate.
When word(s) such as "victim of the melee"/"hammered off stride"/"steadied out of the jam up"/"forced in and jostled"/"was jostled hard soon after the start"/"forced into tight quarters" appear,they are used because that's what actually happened..
And please spare me the cheap shot on the Kentucky chart callers trying to justify your mistaken view of the race.........they are skilled/trained professionals who do an outstanding job day in and day out.
Look,I'm sure you're a decent sort............but man you got this one wrong.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by taxicab

Look,I'm sure you're a decent sort............but man you got this one wrong.

I feel so much better.

[taxicab]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I feel so much better.

I took it easy on you.
You're welcome.

[Seattleallstar]

Timeline in the Belmont will be the wiseguy horse for sure

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by taxicab

Everybody watched the race........come on.
And everybody saw with their own eyes the bumper car chain reaction caused by IWC.
I just presented the chart and some of the quotes because they were accurate.
When word(s) such as "victim of the melee"/"hammered off stride"/"steadied out of the jam up"/"forced in and jostled"/"was jostled hard soon after the start"/"forced into tight quarters" appear,they are used because that's what actually happened..
And please spare me the cheap shot on the Kentucky chart callers trying to justify your mistaken view of the race.........they are skilled/trained professionals who do an outstanding job day in and day out.
Look,I'm sure you're a decent sort............but man you got this one wrong.

Sometimes horses get in trouble in races and it actual works to their advantage. So just saying or in this case repeating that a horse was subject to trouble only matters if it adversely effected the horses chances to get to the rail and or lead. Just repeating a chart can be dangerous, Oh and the paid professional line is a real dussy.. The kid working the Fryolator at DQ is also a professional

[taxicab]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Sometimes horses get in trouble in races and it actual works to their advantage. So just saying or in this case repeating that a horse was subject to trouble only matters if it adversely effected the horses chances to get to the rail and or lead. Just repeating a chart can be dangerous, Oh and the paid professional line is a real dussy.. The kid working the Fryolator at DQ is also a professional

Again with the chart talk ?
What went on during the initial stages was in plain view and everybody saw it.
I mentioned that I used the chart because it was convenient(and accurate).

From post #220,I explained that I didn't even look at the chart until last night after BTW post(#219):
FYI......I didn't look at the chart of this race until after your post because I thought the demolition derby at the beginning of the race was obvious

BTW.....I don't think the connections of Classic Empire or McCraken think your theory about trouble sometimes helping a horse out in a race applies in this instance.
But don't take my word for it by any means.

John Oxley's Classic Empire, fourth in the Kentucky Derby after a horrendous start and trip

Casse said Classic Empire was “wiped out” at the start of the race as he emerged from the gate,

“I watched the replay a couple of times yesterday,” Casse said. Honestly, I think our horse probably got more respect out of that performance (from) anyone who really watched the race, because he overcame a lot just to finish fourth. I'm proud of him, and look forward to trying Always Dreaming again.

“Classic Empire is very fast. Our intentions were to be up laying close to the pace. In fact, I told Julien that I'd love to be able to get up and get over. Because I thought there was definitely an advantage to being inside. And 100 yards out of the gate, it was pretty well over, I thought.

“And then (Sunday) Classic Empire could hardly open his eye. I don't know when that occurred, whether with all the bumping. First thing Julien said to me was, ‘I don't know how we didn't go down.' He said he really got hit hard. Anybody who has ever had the wind knocked out of him, you have to wonder about that as well.' He has about four or five abrasions on his right front — one was pretty close to needing stitches.

The juvenile champion did return to the barn with several superficial cuts, likely from the intense bumping at the start, as well as a swollen right eye. Mark Casse reported that the recovery of Classic Empire's eye would be a large factor in determining a Preakness try.

McCRAKEN (8th) – Trainer Ian Wilkes said that Whitham Thoroughbreds' McCraken came out of the Kentucky Derby with a puncture on his left hind leg, but otherwise was none the worse for wear Sunday morning.

“He just walked this morning,” said Wilkes, who normally jogs his horses a day after a race or work. [I]“I didn't want to risk the chance of infection.”[/i]

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I'm not interested in the chart. I watched the race, and particularly the start, quite a few times. Nobody got "crushed." Hyperbole is a dangerous thing.

If people rely on the chart comments in KY for their wagering decisions, they are broke.

[10 pnt move up]

Quick look at the field, feels like a pretty paceless race...should be much slower pace than derby.

[Kasept]

Royal Mo injured during his work. Transported to New Bolton.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I'm not interested in the chart. I watched the race, and particularly the start, quite a few times. Nobody got "crushed." Hyperbole is a dangerous thing.

If people rely on the chart comments in KY for their wagering decisions, they are broke.

And that's what makes this game great Andy... I saw a lot more trouble at the start than you did. Neither of us is wrong.

[Kasept]

[richard burch]

4/ w 5-1-3/ w 5-1-2-3-9 trifecta

Winna Winna Chicken Dinna!

[Alabama Stakes]

Originally Posted by richard burch

4/ w 5-1-3/ w 5-1-2-3-9 trifecta

Winna Winna Chicken Dinna!

More like a ham sandwich

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by philcski

And that's what makes this game great Andy... I saw a lot more trouble at the start than you did. Neither of us is wrong.

Does anyone have a replay link that includes the head-on view of the start?

After reading BTW's comments I went back to watch the replays again, and I'd have to agree with him that in the standard overhead view, the start doesn't look that bad. However, it was the head-on view that I remember showing CE being bumped sideways extremely hard, almost off his feet. I don't totally trust my memory here, but I couldn't find a link that shows anything more than the standard network race replay, without the head-ons.

[Weary]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Does anyone have a replay link that includes the head-on view of the start?

Head on replay of Always Dreaming winning the 2017 Kentucky Derby

[robfla]

Originally Posted by Weary

Head on replay of Always Dreaming winning the 2017 Kentucky Derby

Thanks. Excellent view. It can be looked at differently by each person, but all I see is McCraken bumping CE and pushing CE to the inside of the track - where he probably wanted to be anyways. IMO, its marginal if the start cost CE any final positioning.

[Alabama Stakes]

Those hosses who ran 1-2 got the best trips for sure