BC Sprint Purse Being Withheld

[Merlinsky]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...thheld-by-chrb

Curiouser and curiouser. Is there any chance people could be jumping the gun and unfairly impugning somebody with vague suspicions or does this pretty much mean what the implication is, that there's someone with a weird test result that they're looking into? Still, just putting a cloud over the whole thing seems a mess. I feel like they're all potential perpetrators waiting as a group in the library for Poirot to break it down and get to the person who actually committed the murder.

ETA: http://www.drf.com/news/breeders-cup...et-be-paid-out Baffert said they got paid so presumably it doesn't involve Drefong.

[taxicab]

J. Stables is going to be happy......

[jnunan4759]

I heard a rumor years ago, from a good source, that a whole bunch tested bad in the BC. They thought it may doom the BC and let it all slide. They cleaned it up and ran some trainers out, but I've always kind of believed it. In over 30 years of BC races, no horse has tested positive. I find that a bit hard to believe.

And I'm not a negative guy. I love good horses and I think they are put under greater scrutiny and our sport is cleaner than ever. Think of it, what other sport is the top 3 finishers routinely drug tested? NFL, MLB, NBA? No.

[Kasept]

There have been BC positives called.

Lashkari and Wait a While (penicillin) had overages. Lashkari's was ultimately set aside. Wait a While and Pletcher had penalties leveled.

[10 pnt move up]

According to Ellis, Masochistic – like all Breeders’ Cup runners -- was subject to out-of-competition testing in the weeks leading up to the Breeders’ Cup. He said Masochistic was tested three times, the final test being taken Oct. 28. He said he was not informed until Nov. 2, three days before the race, that Masochistic had traces of stanozolol in those tests.

Neither the CHRB – whose medical director is Dr. Rick Arthur -- nor the Breeders’ Cup ordered Ellis to scratch. The decision was left to Ellis and Masochistic’s owners.

This sport.

http://www.drf.com/news/masochistic-...fied-bc-sprint

[Alabama Stakes]

The same officials who robbed Songbird no doubt. Lotta corrupt people in Cali I guess.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

The same officials who robbed Songbird no doubt. Lotta corrupt people in Cali I guess.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

[-BT-]

anyone know how much my DreFong / Mind Your Biscuits exacta will now pay? also, i had the tri.....i assume twinspires.com will just credit my account?

-bt-

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

According to Ellis, Masochistic – like all Breeders’ Cup runners -- was subject to out-of-competition testing in the weeks leading up to the Breeders’ Cup. He said Masochistic was tested three times, the final test being taken Oct. 28. He said he was not informed until Nov. 2, three days before the race, that Masochistic had traces of stanozolol in those tests.

Neither the CHRB – whose medical director is Dr. Rick Arthur -- nor the Breeders’ Cup ordered Ellis to scratch. The decision was left to Ellis and Masochistic’s owners.

This sport.

http://www.drf.com/news/masochistic-...fied-bc-sprint

What difference did it make the he was notified "only" three days prior?

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

What difference did it make the he was notified "only" three days prior?

This whole thing is shady all around...wreaks of a good ole boy network.

[freddymo]

Ellis used Winstrol he knew or should have known the drug is not made in states is created abroad and is banned. He should have known that established withdrawal rates were published when drug was created in states not compounded aboard. They knew what they were doing and they thought they would be ok after 60 days. They were told TRACE elements were still present by authorities they ELECTED to run in BC. Allegedly it was Ellis's call, he after researching the situation with vet's decided that it was worth the risk. Once you weigh options and make the decision to run educated that days previous your horse was still showing trace elements you had better be willing to deal with ramifications and not play the woe is me card.

What's important not to lose track of is Ellis was transparent. Also don't lose sight of the fact the horse had no appreciable drugs in his system to have made him race better.The whole cycling in and out BS is ridiculous.

IMO Ellis took a calculated risk, first using a banned, foreign made compounded substance to treat bleeding and appetite loss(there are alternatives), then running a horse he had been advised was still showing trace elements of a banned drug. Is it his fault absolutely. Should he be admonished, fined, suspended? of course, he knew better then to run that horse.

What's difficult in this case you know the connections and you know they were not being nefarious or under handed, so you feel bad for them or at least I do. I don't feel bad for Ron Ellis he knew exactly what was in store for him if he had a hot test.

[Pants II]

Will Betfair fire him? *fingers crossed*

[KidCruz]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...ug-disclosures

This article from a March CHRB meeting is worth a second look in light of what has happened. The issue raised is sharing vet records with claiming trainers. Ellis is VERY vocal in his displeasure with the thought of turning over any information.

We don't want to divulge what we've been doing to get that horse to run better. You can't legislate morality. If you think I'm going to tell the truth, I'm just telling you, I'm not.

I'm sure he's a nice guy and friendly with Byk and Privman and Serling but it's no stretch to say there might be more at play here.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by KidCruz

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...ug-disclosures

This article from a March CHRB meeting is worth a second look in light of what has happened. The issue raised is sharing vet records with claiming trainers. Ellis is VERY vocal in his displeasure with the thought of turning over any information.



I'm sure he's a nice guy and friendly with Byk and Privman and Serling but it's no stretch to say there might be more at play here.

I've never met, or had any contact with, Ron Ellis.

This kind of lame crap gets pretty tiresome.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by KidCruz

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...ug-disclosures

This article from a March CHRB meeting is worth a second look in light of what has happened. The issue raised is sharing vet records with claiming trainers. Ellis is VERY vocal in his displeasure with the thought of turning over any information.

I'm sure he's a nice guy and friendly with Byk and Privman and Serling but it's no stretch to say there might be more at play here.

Like what? What more is at play? Say specifically. You can chide Ellis for taking a chance with a compounded steroid that's not as consistent as the steroid era commercial products (Winstrol, Equipoise, etc.) were and for choosing to run after the discussions with CHRB, but that's about it. He and everything that went on leading up to Cup were well known by the parties involved starting with the record of Masochistic getting a stanozolol injection days after the Pat O'Brien.

The recriminations should be directed towards the governing bodies, no? Everyone was aware of a potential problem weeks out and handled it poorly. They had a trace positive 22 days out and everyone took a wait and see. Then 8 days out they still have it but don't tell Ellis until 3 days out when he can't get a test turned around. Then the entry is accepted and dice rolled. If you're doing out of competition testing, USE IT PROACTIVELY. Horse can't enter.

Separately, I know it's important at Pace Advantage to be a cool kid and **** on everything and everyone involved in the sport, but that doesn't play here. Andy doesn't know Ellis at all as stated above and I know him from having him on radio maybe twice a year. I think I've shaken his hand twice. His reputation is pristine and it's completely understandable that a trainer wouldn't care to reveal what their operation does when attempting to improve a claimed horse. Why would they and alert other outfits to things they may be overlooking in their training?

As for criticism of Jay Privman writing a factually accurate spot news article, I've never seen anything so bizarre. And as for me, ATR coverage of the story was instantaneous and thorough featuring Ellis on all aspects of the circumstances, Dr. Steven Allday, the leading practicing veterinarian in the sport on stanozolol and its' properties and attorney Alan Foreman of RMTC, ARCI, Maryland Jockey Club and Thoroughbred Horseman's Association on the regulatory aspects.

But you didn't listen to any of those segments, did you? I'll summarize their appearances. Ellis is embarrassed and would have handled things differently knowing what he knows now about the steroid in question. Allday criticized him for playing with fire with an unstable metabolic. Foreman said testing continues to be stringent and effective down now to the picogram and the protocols for steroids have effectively eliminated them from the game. If operations want to use them the way Ellis did twice this year between layoffs or on the farm bring horses back from injury, etc., they better be sure the product is out of the horses' system before running. In other words, though the entry management was handled badly, the testing system worked.

Going forward there's execution elements that can be addressed out of this incident which is a good thing. If you're going to out of competition test, put it to use and refuse entry to avoid a problem. Of course it's more important to feign outrage and attack anyone involved in any way rather than understand the hows and whys and potential for improvement.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by KidCruz

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...ug-disclosures

This article from a March CHRB meeting is worth a second look in light of what has happened. The issue raised is sharing vet records with claiming trainers. Ellis is VERY vocal in his displeasure with the thought of turning over any information.



I'm sure he's a nice guy and friendly with Byk and Privman and Serling but it's no stretch to say there might be more at play here.

Ok Joe Drape..

What do you think Privman/Byk/Serling are on the Ellis payroll? Steve had Allday on for 30 minutes who basically called the decision to use a banned drug irresponsible. Guess Steve's stipend will be a bag of coal this Christmas.
You figure Privman is devoid of journalist integrity because he didnt throw the book at him in a NON Editorial piece. Who knows what Privman's opinion on the matter is its not his job to write what he thinks only what he knows.
Serling is no lover of cheaters have you ever read a tweet or post that suggested such? I read a lot of ...were did that race come from, WHATEVER, and other reasonable challenges to new barns miracle improvements. Now because NYRA hired a well spoken intelligent trainer to share some knowledge with viewers you figure Serling is part of the conspiracy to defraud bettors?

The whole article you posted boils down to competent trainers not wanting to offer free education to the people they compete against right? I wouldnt want to teach someone for free either

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Like what? What more is at play? Say specifically. You can chide Ellis for taking a chance with a compounded steroid that's not as consistent as the steroid era commercial products (Winstrol, Equipoise, etc.) were and for choosing to run after the discussions with CHRB, but that's about it. He and everything that went on leading up to Cup were well known by the parties involved starting with the record of Masochistic getting a stanozolol injection days after the Pat O'Brien.

The recriminations should be directed towards the governing bodies, no? Everyone was aware of a potential problem weeks out and handled it poorly. They had a trace positive 22 days out and everyone took a wait and see. Then 8 days out they still have it but don't tell Ellis until 3 days out when he can't get a test turned around. Then the entry is accepted and dice rolled. If you're doing out of competition testing, USE IT PROACTIVELY. Horse can't enter.

Separately, I know it's important at Pace Advantage to be a cool kid and **** on everything and everyone involved in the sport, but that doesn't play here. Andy doesn't know Ellis at all as stated above and I know him from having him on radio maybe twice a year. I think I've shaken his hand twice. His reputation is pristine and it's completely understandable that a trainer wouldn't care to reveal what their operation does when attempting to improve a claimed horse. Why would they and alert other outfits to things they may be overlooking in their training?

As for criticism of Jay Privman writing a factually accurate spot news article, I've never seen anything so bizarre. And as for me, ATR coverage of the story was instantaneous and thorough featuring Ellis on all aspects of the circumstances, Dr. Steven Allday, the leading practicing veterinarian in the sport on stanozolol and its' properties and attorney Alan Foreman of RMTC, ARCI, Maryland Jockey Club and Thoroughbred Horseman's Association on the regulatory aspects.

But you didn't listen to any of those segments, did you? I'll summarize their appearances. Ellis is embarrassed and would have handled things differently knowing what he knows now about the steroid in question. Allday criticized him for playing with fire with an unstable metabolic. Foreman said testing continues to be stringent and effective down now to the picogram and the protocols for steroids have effectively eliminated them from the game. If operations want to use them the way Ellis did twice this year between layoffs or on the farm bring horses back from injury, etc., they better be sure the product is out of the horses' system before running. In other words, though the entry management was handled badly, the testing system worked.

Going forward there's execution elements that can be addressed out of this incident which is a good thing. If you're going to out of competition test, put it to use and refuse entry to avoid a problem. Of course it's more important to feign outrage and attack anyone involved in any way rather than understand the hows and whys and potential for improvement.

I really could care less about the methods that were used if they were legal and it was all about timing.

The real issue is the people who were in place to protect the integrity of the race and the sport did nothing a couple days before the race when they still detected an issue. Isnt that the real story here?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I really could care less about the methods that were used if they were legal and it was all about timing.

The real issue is the people who were in place to protect the integrity of the race and the sport did nothing a couple days before the race when they still detected an issue. Isnt that the real story here?

Tricky.. Don't think CHRB has the power to scratch a horse they feel will test hot. They afforded connections with pre race test results, how could CHRB KNOW that the horse wouldnt clear over the next few days, especially given the transparency they were afforded? If they scratch the horse connections certainly could claim they were outside their authority. they are there to inform and adjudicate not make decisions on behalf of connections. Would guess you would need to re write procedure and have it read your horse must test clear in advance for them to have authority to scratch a horse. Should that be the case in stakes? Maybe

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I really could care less about the methods that were used if they were legal and it was all about timing.

The real issue is the people who were in place to protect the integrity of the race and the sport did nothing a couple days before the race when they still detected an issue. Isnt that the real story here?

Yes.