American Pharoah points to Breeders' Cup Classic

[FATPIANO]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

he won the triple crown you %^&**((($ . hasn't happened since 78. He is a superstar

LOL................yes he won The TC, a very good horse, but NOT great, how many track records has he matched or broken???? NONE, like I said a very good but NOT great horse

[DonGuido]

Originally Posted by FATPIANO

LOL................yes he won The TC, a very good horse, but NOT great, how many track records has he matched or broken???? NONE, like I said a very good but NOT great horse

Track records, whoop doops . . . fact is he puts horses away gliding over the dirt and wins under wraps. Why push the horse any faster if he's got it in hand down the lane. Ya ever heard of "save some for the next race", ? You take speed and records and Ill take 8 wins out of 10 starts with 7 GI's and 1 GII and the Triple Crown any day over track records and add in $6 mil +/- for fun. Your "just a very good horse" is laughable!

[DonGuido]

I have one last thing to add to the detractors of the Greatness of American Pharoah. Haskin's may have put a Pulitzer Prize signature on it. Read this if you haven't already and then . . . I rest my case on Pharoah's greatness.

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse...henomenon.aspx

Way to go Steve!!! Outstanding. And for those of you that don't get it, I feel sorry for you . . . because I would be futile to attempt to explain it to you.

[geeker2]

Maybe he should beat older horses before we crown him.....

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

should be exciting..will see how good beholder travels..im rooting for a ph..hes no fraud.with the timeoff he should run well.

[FATPIANO]

Originally Posted by geeker2

Maybe he should beat older horses before we crown him.....

DITTO

He is a very good horse, but as of yet he is not a great horse, beat his elders, come close to beating a track record and maybe become a great horse, I would take The Bid over him any day, that was a great horse!!

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by FATPIANO

DITTO

He is a very good horse, but as of yet he is not a great horse, beat his elders, come close to beating a track record and maybe become a great horse, I would take The Bid over him any day, that was a great horse!!

That Liam's Map is a serious race horse

[richard burch]

Originally Posted by FATPIANO

LOL................yes he won The TC, a very good horse, but NOT great, how many track records has he matched or broken???? NONE, like I said a very good but NOT great horse

i don't think any horse other than secretariat owns all 3 triple crown records. so are all the other horses "not great" too?

[FATPIANO]

Originally Posted by richard burch

i don't think any horse other than secretariat owns all 3 triple crown records. so are all the other horses "not great" too?

That is NOT what I said, AP has NOT proven to be a great horse yet, he has NOT beaten his elders, and has NOT broken any track records, those are things that GREAT one's do, He is a very good horse, but not a great one(YET) and might not have the time to do so, he got very lucky this spring, that's all.

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by FATPIANO

That is NOT what I said, AP has NOT proven to be a great horse yet, he has NOT beaten his elders, and has NOT broken any track records, those are things that GREAT one's do, He is a very good horse, but not a great one(YET) and might not have the time to do so, he got very lucky this spring, that's all.

Lucky? You're reaching now.

[FATPIANO]

Originally Posted by knickslions2

Lucky? You're reaching now.

sorry it is just my opinion, we all have opinions, I did say he is very good, The first time he got hooked up with another good horse, he lost, thats all

[casp0555]

Originally Posted by FATPIANO

sorry it is just my opinion, we all have opinions, I did say he is very good, The first time he got hooked up with another good horse, he lost, thats all

So Firing Line and Dortmund were not good horses...just asking

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by casp0555

So Firing Line and Dortmund were not good horses...just asking

Winning 5 races in 12 weeks including the triple crown against a pretty good crop of horses was terrible too. I'm not here saying he is the greatest horse of all time but people saying he was lucky is beyond ludacris. Lost one race against a horse who is improving every start.

[tanner12oz]

Originally Posted by FATPIANO

That is NOT what I said, AP has NOT proven to be a great horse yet, he has NOT beaten his elders, and has NOT broken any track records, those are things that GREAT one's do, He is a very good horse, but not a great one(YET) and might not have the time to do so, he got very lucky this spring, that's all.

I'm the eternal pessimist and I disagree completely. The horse did something that hasn't been done in almost 40 years. Pretty sure that separates you from the field

[senator L]

Yes, Sir Barton was a great horse - he won the triple crown
He beat Exterminator, also set a world record in 1920 for 1 3/16
and he was also thought highly enough to get a match race
against Man o War who many think was America's best horse ever.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by senator L

Yes, Sir Barton was a great horse - he won the triple crown
He beat Exterminator, also set a world record in 1920 for 1 3/16
and he was also thought highly enough to get a match race
against Man o War who many think was America's best horse ever.

If he's on your list of greats, it must be a looooooong list.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by Danzig

If he's on your list of greats, it must be a looooooong list.

Now now. Firstly, he ranked #49 on the Bloodhorse's top 100 of the 20th century list (between Personal Ensign and Dahlia) so I'd say he certainly qualifies for that term. Secondly, Sir Barton had bad feet to deal with, and it's thought that they were probably affecting him during the MOW match race. As difficult as it would've been to beat MOW he probably would've been closer at the finish. When Sir Barton was at his best, he was pretty talented and he'd be given more credit were it not for those blasted feet.