The Graveyard of Champions Claims Another

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by JimmyEllis

Better ride gets it done. The problem is that Espinosa can conceptualize that ride. So he got the horse beat and conviently blamed in on conditioning; along with all the other experts. Maybe AP wasn't at the top of his game but he ran well enough to win the race. Shame

It would be interesting to know what exactly was Lezcano's game plan with Frosted. Was he simply targeting American Pharoah or was he trying to make the lead (perhaps thinking AP would sit just off the frontrunner ala the AK Derby, KY Derby, and Haskell)?

From a running style standpoint, Frosted is fairly versatile. He showed solid early speed in Florida and in his maiden breaker at 2. In the Wood, he seemed rejuvenated with an off-the-pace style (although I believe he also had corrective throat surgery at the same time). In the Derby, he came from well out of it and closed stoutly, yet ultimately made no impression on the top two home. In the Belmont, he stalked and let American Pharoah dictate the running, then made a strong move at him (while having to steady slightly on the far turn) in the stretch, but could not get even within a length of him. So unless his connections were resigned to running for second money, sending him to the lead made a lot of sense. It was the only tool they had yet to use to reverse form on AP.

Of course, it still didn't work. But what it did do was force Espinoza to ride the race as if it were 9f and not 10f. As Baffert himself said, AP won the Kentucky Derby "on guts" and "got away with it". Many people suggested, despite winning the Derby, that AP had come back down to earth. The rest of the Triple Crown, which was practically scripted for AP's ascension (a torrential downpour minutes before the Preakness, a paceless Belmont) brushed away all those nagging concerns about AP and distance limitations. The facile manner of the subsequent Haskell further solidified the mantle of invincibility bestowed on this horse. But in the end, like many a brilliant racehorse, AP will always be vulnerable at the classic distances, especially when there is an honest pace scenario.

[asudevil]

Perfectly stated.

[Travis Stone]

When did it become the Graveyard of Champions? It was always "Graveyard of Favorites."

[saratogadew]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

When did it become the Graveyard of Champions? It was always "Graveyard of Favorites."

Per Harvey Pack " it's the graveyard of bad handicappers"

[ADJMK]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

It would be interesting to know what exactly was Lezcano's game plan with Frosted. Was he simply targeting American Pharoah or was he trying to make the lead (perhaps thinking AP would sit just off the frontrunner ala the AK Derby, KY Derby, and Haskell)?

From a running style standpoint, Frosted is fairly versatile. He showed solid early speed in Florida and in his maiden breaker at 2. In the Wood, he seemed rejuvenated with an off-the-pace style (although I believe he also had corrective throat surgery at the same time). In the Derby, he came from well out of it and closed stoutly, yet ultimately made no impression on the top two home. In the Belmont, he stalked and let American Pharoah dictate the running, then made a strong move at him (while having to steady slightly on the far turn) in the stretch, but could not get even within a length of him. So unless his connections were resigned to running for second money, sending him to the lead made a lot of sense. It was the only tool they had yet to use to reverse form on AP.

Of course, it still didn't work. But what it did do was force Espinoza to ride the race as if it were 9f and not 10f. As Baffert himself said, AP won the Kentucky Derby "on guts" and "got away with it". Many people suggested, despite winning the Derby, that AP had come back down to earth. The rest of the Triple Crown, which was practically scripted for AP's ascension (a torrential downpour minutes before the Preakness, a paceless Belmont) brushed away all those nagging concerns about AP and distance limitations. The facile manner of the subsequent Haskell further solidified the mantle of invincibility bestowed on this horse. But in the end, like many a brilliant racehorse, AP will always be vulnerable at the classic distances, especially when there is an honest pace scenario.

Finally got to watch the race and you summed it up perfectly.

[GenuineRisk]

NYTimes article- Baffert's preference is to train up to Breeders' Cup. Joe Drape's writing can make me crazy sometimes, but this is a nice piece.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/31/sp...tion.html?_r=0

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

NYTimes article- Baffert's preference is to train up to Breeders' Cup. Joe Drape's writing can make me crazy sometimes, but this is a nice piece.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/31/sp...tion.html?_r=0

I figured that would be Baffert's take. I didn't think he'd shy away from doing that at all, esp. because it didn't seem like they were too excited about the timing of the other options, esp. ones the facing elders, pre-Classic. I wouldn't doubt they've got Beholder in the back of their mind right now.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

I figured that would be Baffert's take. I didn't think he'd shy away from doing that at all, esp. because it didn't seem like they were too excited about the timing of the other options, esp. ones the facing elders, pre-Classic. I wouldn't doubt they've got Beholder in the back of their mind right now.

I thought it funny that right after the race Zayat was, "Maybe we should retire him. I think we should retire him," and the next day Baffert was just, "Yeah, we'll train him up to the Classic."

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I thought it funny that right after the race Zayat was, "Maybe we should retire him. I think we should retire him," and the next day Baffert was just, "Yeah, we'll train him up to the Classic."

i really think baffert wanted to skip the travers. it was one too many, and i think he knew that.

[DonGuido]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I thought it funny that right after the race Zayat was, "Maybe we should retire him. I think we should retire him," and the next day Baffert was just, "Yeah, we'll train him up to the Classic."

Mr Zayat let his disappointment and emotions do the talking. I'm sure he was saddened by the outcome. Now they have a clearer head to rest him for a couple weeks and train up to the Classic sound perfect. I also hope they get him there a week ahead of time, two I'd prefer. I never like this shipping on Wed and running on Sat especially on a plane from that distance.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DonGuido

Mr Zayat let his disappointment and emotions do the talking. I'm sure he was saddened by the outcome. Now they have a clearer head to rest him for a couple weeks and train up to the Classic sound perfect. I also hope they get him there a week ahead of time, two I'd prefer. I never like this shipping on Wed and running on Sat especially on a plane from that distance.

except every trainer generally says you go a couple days in, or a couple weeks in. i doubt baffert is willing to do the latter.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

... So unless his connections were resigned to running for second money, sending [Frosted] to the lead made a lot of sense. It was the only tool they had yet to use to reverse form on AP.

According to Bloodhorse, it was not Kiaran McLaughlin's intention at all: "Frosted's trainer Kiaran McLaughlin said he didn't expect for his colt to press American Pharoah."

see http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...m-team-pharoah

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

According to Bloodhorse, it was not Kiaran McLaughlin's intention at all: "Frosted's trainer Kiaran McLaughlin said he didn't expect for his colt to press American Pharoah."

see http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...m-team-pharoah

Yeah, I read that as well. I should have said it was Lezcano's call, not "the connections". Actually, in retrospect, given the lack of early speed on paper, Frosted was just as likely as any to be sitting second regardless of McLaughlin's expectations.

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

It would be interesting to know what exactly was Lezcano's game plan with Frosted. Was he simply targeting American Pharoah or was he trying to make the lead (perhaps thinking AP would sit just off the frontrunner ala the AK Derby, KY Derby, and Haskell)?

From a running style standpoint, Frosted is fairly versatile. He showed solid early speed in Florida and in his maiden breaker at 2. In the Wood, he seemed rejuvenated with an off-the-pace style (although I believe he also had corrective throat surgery at the same time). In the Derby, he came from well out of it and closed stoutly, yet ultimately made no impression on the top two home. In the Belmont, he stalked and let American Pharoah dictate the running, then made a strong move at him (while having to steady slightly on the far turn) in the stretch, but could not get even within a length of him. So unless his connections were resigned to running for second money, sending him to the lead made a lot of sense. It was the only tool they had yet to use to reverse form on AP.

Of course, it still didn't work. But what it did do was force Espinoza to ride the race as if it were 9f and not 10f. As Baffert himself said, AP won the Kentucky Derby "on guts" and "got away with it". Many people suggested, despite winning the Derby, that AP had come back down to earth. The rest of the Triple Crown, which was practically scripted for AP's ascension (a torrential downpour minutes before the Preakness, a paceless Belmont) brushed away all those nagging concerns about AP and distance limitations. The facile manner of the subsequent Haskell further solidified the mantle of invincibility bestowed on this horse. But in the end, like many a brilliant racehorse, AP will always be vulnerable at the classic distances, especially when there is an honest pace scenario.

I think Lezcano clearly rode to win the race. I saw nothing wrong with his ride.