2015: American Pharoah becomes 12th Triple Crown winner

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

The connections of the California based horses have all gone Roberto Duran on this race.

Who is missing? Firing Line and Dortmund both took 2 shots and are spent horses.

Next weekend is the Affirmed Stakes that will have some late bloomers and a couple of reboots. If horses like Kentuckian, Prospect Park, Madiba and Cyrus Alexander had a bit more bottom to them, perhaps one would have pointed to New York.

Jerry Hollendorfer also took over the training of Desert Dynamo, who was being groomed as the next Distinctiv Passion under Jeff Bonde, and promptly stretched him out with great success this weekend. Second dam was the Tartan mare Coup de Fusil, who knocked heads with Personal Ensign, Lady's Secret, Sachauista, etc.

Beyond California, I would have liked to have seen Divining Rod point to the Belmont.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Who is missing? Firing Line and Dortmund both took 2 shots and are spent horses.

Next weekend is the Affirmed Stakes that will have some late bloomers and a couple of reboots. If horses like Kentuckian, Prospect Park, Madiba and Cyrus Alexander had a bit more bottom to them, perhaps one would have pointed to New York.

Jerry Hollendorfer also took over the training of Desert Dynamo, who was being groomed as the next Distinctiv Passion under Jeff Bonde, and promptly stretched him out with great success this weekend. Second dam was the Tartan mare Coup de Fusil, who knocked heads with Personal Ensign, Lady's Secret, Sachauista, etc.

Beyond California, I would have liked to have seen Divining Rod point to the Belmont.

How much bottom do you really need these days? Materiality doesnt strike me as a colt with a lot of bottom and he is 2nd choice. I guess this is his last race for a few months anyways after he gets gutted

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

How much bottom do you really need these days? Materiality doesnt strike me as a colt with a lot of bottom and he is 2nd choice. I guess this is his last race for a few months anyways after he gets gutted

Freddy, Materiality has been at the Grade 1 level since March. The horses I mentioned either failed at that level this winter, are just coming out of allowance conditions, or stretching out from sprint distances.

A 12f Classic on the other side of the country isn't an attractive option at the moment.

Materiality's race record is quite similar to another Pletcher-trainee, Dunkirk, who went on the shelf (permanently) after the Belmont. But he did run a strong race to finish 2nd.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Freddy, Materiality has been at the Grade 1 level since March. The horses I mentioned either failed at that level this winter, are just coming out of allowance conditions, or stretching out from sprint distances.

A 12f Classic on the other side of the country isn't an attractive option at the moment.

Materiality's race record is quite similar to another Pletcher-trainee, Dunkirk, who went on the shelf (permanently) after the Belmont. But he did run a strong race to finish 2nd.

Watched that race with a sharp handicapper in NY at Belmont. Dunkirk was very good colt. That guy liked SB and Dunkirk only winner he has ever given to me in the 15 years I know him. lol sort of.. Very similar to Materiality PP wise

As far as Summer Bird being in AP's league.... They dont breathe the same air

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

As far as Summer Bird being in AP's league.... They dont breathe the same air

He wasn't in Rachel Alexandra's or Zenyatta's leagues either...when he was racing under their ideal conditions. But under his own ideal conditions, in the slop at 10f or more in NY, he was a superior racehorse.

Perhaps a sloppy track will provide the necessary leverage, but anything at 10f or more seems non-ideal for American Pharoah.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

He wasn't in Rachel Alexandra's or Zenyatta's leagues either...when he was racing under their ideal conditions. But under his own ideal conditions, in the slop at 10f or more in NY, he was a superior racehorse.

Perhaps a sloppy track will provide the necessary leverage, but anything at 10f or more seems non-ideal for American Pharoah.

I don't know man, his efficiency and conservation of energy in the way he moves should mean he can get that distance.

Of course, I have no idea what his cardiovascular system is like, but the way his momentum is transfered from behind to front is awesome.

[FATPIANO]

has Pletcher announced who is riding Materiality?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I don't know man, his efficiency and conservation of energy in the way he moves should mean he can get that distance.

Of course, I have no idea what his cardiovascular system is like, but the way his momentum is transfered from behind to front is awesome.

I don't subscribe to the DRF's Premium Perplexing Physiological Parameters Past Performances, so I can't use those in my analysis.

But if you are trying to say that American Pharoah is a "pretty mover", I agree.

That doesn't mean he's the mythical perpetual motion machine. Exhaustion will set in, which will probably elicit forced contractions of a different sort than myocardial effort, externally applied by Victor Espinoza.

It probably won't be enough...if the image of American Pharoah moving more vertically than horizontally while struggling to put away the drunk-toddler-on-tricycle-with-missing-wheel-bearing stride of Firing Line in the Kentucky Derby serves any kind of warning.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

He wasn't in Rachel Alexandra's or Zenyatta's leagues either...when he was racing under their ideal conditions. But under his own ideal conditions, in the slop at 10f or more in NY, he was a superior racehorse.

Perhaps a sloppy track will provide the necessary leverage, but anything at 10f or more seems non-ideal for American Pharoah.

I dont think their is a 3 yer old colt that can run 12f's fast never mind well

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I dont think their is a 3 yer old colt that can run 12f's fast never mind well

I guess the Belmont is anybody's race then.

How quickly the "super horse" rhetoric is abandoned, once a little clarity begins to set in.

[DonGuido]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I dont think their is a 3 yer old colt that can run 12f's fast never mind well

Exactly

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Who is missing? Firing Line and Dortmund both took 2 shots and are spent horses.

Next weekend is the Affirmed Stakes that will have some late bloomers and a couple of reboots. If horses like Kentuckian, Prospect Park, Madiba and Cyrus Alexander had a bit more bottom to them, perhaps one would have pointed to New York.

Jerry Hollendorfer also took over the training of Desert Dynamo, who was being groomed as the next Distinctiv Passion under Jeff Bonde, and promptly stretched him out with great success this weekend. Second dam was the Tartan mare Coup de Fusil, who knocked heads with Personal Ensign, Lady's Secret, Sachauista, etc.

Beyond California, I would have liked to have seen Divining Rod point to the Belmont.

Well, yeah, those are the two that I'm referring to.

That was an interesting race the other day by Desert Dynamo. Not sure there was much behind him.

There was once talk about Kentuckian being aimed for the Preakness. That seemed premature to me and I'm glad it worked out the way it did.

I think Kentuckian could be any kind. If he goes long successfully, like I suspect he should, it could make a great matchup should he and AP square off.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Well, yeah, those are the two that I'm referring to.

I figured. But the comment seemed stale, seeing how the connections of both horses opted out of the Belmont about 5 minutes after the Preakness.

That was an interesting race the other day by Desert Dynamo. Not sure there was much behind him.

Forest Blue is a very good horse, at least around one turn. Unfortunately, he has been pushed hard, first by facing graded stakes horses a couple of weeks after winning his belated debut, then wheeling right back from there to go two turns. One can't expect him to last too long.

At least he placed in both those races. If they take a more patient approach, he might be a contender for a race like the King's Bishop.

There was once talk about Kentuckian being aimed for the Preakness. That seemed premature to me and I'm glad it worked out the way it did.

Don't know who did that talking. Must have been the same people who thought it was a good idea to run Forest Music in the BC Juvenile Fillies after her maiden win.

I think Kentuckian could be any kind. If he goes long successfully, like I suspect he should, it could make a great matchup should he and AP square off.

The cryptic "better horse in the crop" than American Pharoah.

Hopefully, if such a matchup takes place, it will developed better than War Emblem versus Came Home showdown in the 2002 Pacific Classic.

[Cpt.Bodgit]

[quote=RolloTomasi;1029463]Who is missing? Firing Line and Dortmund both took 2 shots and are spent horses.



Personally I was hoping Tencendur would come back in the Belmont to take a shot. I saw he was working on the turf and back on the dirt at Belmont a couple of days ago. Anyone hear why he is passing?