American Pharoah...

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I don't perceive there being any negativity towards his performance, only a bit of reality that he isn't a super horse.

Perhaps this will play out to be like a Captain Bodgit, Silver Charm & Free House Triple Crown season. (With Materiality being the bad-trip spoiler in the Belmont )

But only crazy people on twitter called him a super horse, right? I don't get how winning the Derby makes you not as good as you were going in. Its not like the beyer came back really slow, and timeform gave it a good fig. I thought it was a good performance from a very good horse.

[Arletta]

"According to CHRB staff, Kentucky requires that a jockey show the horse the whip and give it time to respond before striking the horse, and then must give the horse time to respond before striking it again. New York also requires jockeys to show the crop to the horse before striking again."

Read more on BloodHorse.com: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...#ixzz3ZDHMIvrd

[Benny]

AP wears them ,and lost his only race without them. YET, the bettor has no knowledge of this in the pps, alongwith shoeing info and change of bits, no ? I had not known of he AP bar shoe until i read it here. why are lask and blinkers reported, but not earplugs, and sometimes shoeing ?

http://www.si.com/horse-racing/2015/...nd-bob-baffert

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

But only crazy people on twitter called him a super horse, right? I don't get how winning the Derby makes you not as good as you were going in. Its not like the beyer came back really slow, and timeform gave it a good fig. I thought it was a good performance from a very good horse.

No, there were smart people saying outlandish things about him that certainly did not come to fruition in the Derby. The fact that you are saying he didn't handle the track in the Derby is a direct result of that. This is the kind of opinion that indirectly will cause you to lose money unnecessarily, and eventually this could make you less of a racing fan.

The problem is that people get led astray with this kind of silliness. But, hey, at least some of us don't mind playing the bad guy, as long as it helps some people.

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

No, there were smart people saying outlandish things about him that certainly did not come to fruition in the Derby. The fact that you are saying he didn't handle the track in the Derby is a direct result of that. This is the kind of opinion that indirectly will cause you to lose money unnecessarily, and eventually this could make you less of a racing fan.

The problem is that people get led astray with this kind of silliness. But, hey, at least some of us don't mind playing the bad guy, as long as it helps some people.

Maybe its my high opinion of him after the Arkansas Derby that makes me feel like he didn't run his race. That's all I said. I never mentioned the track. I hate all the hype he gets. It makes it hard to want him to do good. This is a horse who broke his maiden in a G1. He is clearly talented. I get that he pulls a lot of good trips, but I believe horses with tactical speed make there own trip. So I cant hold this against him. I read someone saying he has never had to take kick back. Well my response to that is why would he ever have to? I think he is a front runner who can rate. For what its worth I respect your opinion more then most. You mentioned a horse that was over 40-1 on talking horses on Saturday that I gave a 2nd look to because of you. He ran 2nd.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

This is a horse who broke his maiden in a G1.

Recall that the two horses who finished behind him in the Del Mar Futurity were also maidens at the time. One of them still is.

These are the unmentioned details that keep hype alive.

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Recall that the two horses who finished behind him in the Del Mar Futurity were also maidens at the time. One of them still is.

These are the unmentioned details that keep hype alive.

Skyway had just won a G2 over the track, the prep for the G1.
Calculator came back and ran two good races before being sidelined. Finishing 2nd to AP next time out then winning a G3. Improving his beyer every race. These things matter, correct?
As for the hype. I agree that he is over hyped. I did not bet him at 5-2. I said on this board that I thought the chalks were legit going into the Derby. I was using Dortmund and AP as A's and Frosted and Upstart as my only back ups. I actually bet Upstart to win because of price.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

Calculator came back and ran two good races before being sidelined.

It's interesting that American Pharaoh was the only one of several juveniles in CA last year that suffered major setbacks that has been able to make a sustained comeback.

Iron Fist went to the sidelines after the DM Futurity. Henry's Holiday went to the sidelines after one of the big stakes. Skyway went to the sidelines after bombing in the Frontrunner. American Pharaoh and Calculator were high profile scratches from the Breeder's Cup. One Lucky Dane went on the shelf after the BC. Texas Red disappeared after his seasonal debut. Calculator was injured in a workout soon after his comeback. One Lucky Dane was hurt in a work for the Kentucky Derby after 2 races.

So far, the late season 2yos, Dortmund and Firing Line have held it together.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

It's interesting that American Pharaoh was the only one of several juveniles in CA last year that suffered major setbacks that has been able to make a sustained comeback.

Iron Fist went to the sidelines after the DM Futurity. Henry's Holiday went to the sidelines after one of the big stakes. Skyway went to the sidelines after bombing in the Frontrunner. American Pharaoh and Calculator were high profile scratches from the Breeder's Cup. One Lucky Dane went on the shelf after the BC. Texas Red disappeared after his seasonal debut. Calculator was injured in a workout soon after his comeback. One Lucky Dane was hurt in a work for the Kentucky Derby after 2 races.

So far, the late season 2yos, Dortmund and Firing Line have held it together.

Waiting for Om's 2nd start back too..

[Aly-Sheba]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

It's interesting that American Pharaoh was the only one of several juveniles in CA last year that suffered major setbacks that has been able to make a sustained comeback.

Iron Fist went to the sidelines after the DM Futurity. Henry's Holiday went to the sidelines after one of the big stakes. Skyway went to the sidelines after bombing in the Frontrunner. American Pharaoh and Calculator were high profile scratches from the Breeder's Cup. One Lucky Dane went on the shelf after the BC. Texas Red disappeared after his seasonal debut. Calculator was injured in a workout soon after his comeback. One Lucky Dane was hurt in a work for the Kentucky Derby after 2 races.

So far, the late season 2yos, Dortmund and Firing Line have held it together.

That's what happens when you have fast horses, they get hurt. When you are slow like some of horses on the east coast, you can't run fast enough to get hurt!! ��

[pointman]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

No, there were smart people saying outlandish things about him that certainly did not come to fruition in the Derby. The fact that you are saying he didn't handle the track in the Derby is a direct result of that. This is the kind of opinion that indirectly will cause you to lose money unnecessarily, and eventually this could make you less of a racing fan.

The problem is that people get led astray with this kind of silliness. But, hey, at least some of us don't mind playing the bad guy, as long as it helps some people.

Clearly there is way too much dead weight here to ever get a deal done.

[RHT2004]

That was a thread kill.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

That was a thread kill.

No idea what happened..it's like one of those proton thread bombs that leaves everything intact, yet sucks all of the collective brain cells into a black hole.

I don't get how some people will look for every excuse in the book to discount this horse's effort to validate their own biases. I imagine if I were a Dortmund fan, perhaps I'd feel the same - I don't know. I'm not really even a fan of this horse.

That said, the horse has done absolutely nothing wrong. Ran further than anyone else, persisted, won the friggin Derby. Somehow he's unworthy because Dortmund had a belly ache for a few hours 2 weeks prior, Upstart had a bad day, Firing Line purportedly didn't switch leads, Materiality had a bad break, etc.

It's silly. I only hope he gets even more of a pace and more dirt in his face. Of course if he draws outside and no one goes with him, that's on him as well.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

No idea what happened..it's like one of those proton thread bombs that leaves everything intact, yet sucks all of the collective brain cells into a black hole.

I don't get how some people will look for every excuse in the book to discount this horse's effort to validate their own biases. I imagine if I were a Dortmund fan, perhaps I'd feel the same - I don't know. I'm not really even a fan of this horse.

That said, the horse has done absolutely nothing wrong. Ran further than anyone else, persisted, won the friggin Derby. Somehow he's unworthy because Dortmund had a belly ache for a few hours 2 weeks prior, Upstart had a bad day, Firing Line purportedly didn't switch leads, Materiality had a bad break, etc.

It's silly. I only hope he gets even more of a pace and more dirt in his face. Of course if he draws outside and no one goes with him, that's on him as well.

The only non biased people here are those who bet against Pharoah.

[blackthroatedwind]

Yeah, critical analysis is way overrated, especially in horse racing. Silly me.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

That was a thread kill.

As usual your instinct is spot on.