Kellyn Gorder - buh bye for 14 months

[-BT-]

makes sense, i thought with his name, he was a women
also, makes sense, b/c i thought he/she was a "live" trainer......and now i know the answer to both

-bt-

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by -BT-

makes sense, i thought with his name, he was a women
also, makes sense, b/c i thought he/she was a "live" trainer......and now i know the answer to both

-bt-

Didn't have quite the same success at Tampa and GP this meet as in years past either - in fact, was virtually invisible... coincidence?

Win% by year:

2012 - 26.7%
2013 - 18%
2014 - 19%
2015 - 11%

[-BT-]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Didn't have quite the same success at Tampa and GP this meet as in years past either - in fact, was virtually invisible... coincidence?

Win% by year:

2012 - 26.7%
2013 - 18%
2014 - 19%
2015 - 11%

Yup, if i remember correctly, he use to be decent with younger horses down in TB, that's where i picked him up at. i think he's had a few at Keeneland so far this meet.... check that 15 starters 1-5-1, still good for hitting the board.

http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Res...e=T&eID=218910

-bt-

[pointman]

It is amazing how many "innocent" guys claim that "it must be contamination!"

Contamination is suddenly becoming a serious issue.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by pointman

It is amazing how many "innocent" guys claim that "it must be contamination!"

Contamination is suddenly becoming a serious issue.

20 picograms.

20 ten trillions of a gram.

20/10,000,000,000,000.

You're an attorney. You'd have a field day with this. It's so obviously a residue contamination that it would be laughable if it didn't involve someone's career and reputation.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Kasept

20 picograms.

20 ten trillions of a gram.

20/10,000,000,000,000.

You're an attorney. You'd have a field day with this. It's so obviously a residue contamination that it would be laughable if it didn't involve someone's career and reputation.

I absolutely would have a field day with it. What troubles me is the claim that it must have been caused by contamination. It seems to be the new defense to claim that not only that you are innocent, but a victim as well. It smells like BS likely because it is.

There is no excuse for a stimulant such as meth to be in a horse. Further, there is particularly no excuse to have injectable medications, syringes, needles and oral medications not properly labeled. As the handling and labeling of these objects is clear in this day and age any trainer would have to be either cheating having these lying around or just plain damn stupid.

I know if I was representing a trainer I would make sure they would not say anything stupid like it must have been caused by contamination, rather, I would hire an expert to figure out the chances of that happening, formulate a solid defense and make statements based upon verifiable facts instead of blaming a straw man which only leads to those justifiably poking fun at the excuse.

I hope he is innocent of the charges because I like Gorder as a trainer and find this crap disturbing. But I also think it is fair for people to have their doubts when there was a finding against him after which he had the opportunity to present a defense (and I know that administrative hearings can be a joke, but you can always at some point get it into a real court and present a viable defense whereby you can make a statement as to what your defense is and that it will vindicate the client in a court of law), is coming off his two best years as a trainer, has unlabeled items in the barn and has a drug in a horse's system that has zero justification for being in a horse's blood at any levels.

[Kasept]

It's sad that anyone here would immediately presume the worst of a person like Kellyn Gorder, not to mention gleefully celebrate him having to deal with this kind of problem. He's had one clenbuterol overage from 1700+ starters in 10+ years, but behind the scenes has been using Class 1 drugs that readily test at any lab? Right.. That makes perfect sense.

His reputation as a horseman among his peers -- and employers like ultimate straight arrow owner Bill Casner -- is impeccable. But believe whatever you want. If they're going to make 'examples' of someone like Kellyn Gorder without practical common sense, there's no reason for any trainer to stay in the sport.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Kasept

It's sad that anyone here would immediately presume the worst of a person like Kellyn Gorder, not to mention gleefully celebrate him having to deal with this kind of problem. He's had one clenbuterol overage from 1700+ starters in 10+ years, but behind the scenes has been using Class 1 drugs that readily test at any lab? Right.. That makes perfect sense.

His reputation as a horseman among his peers -- and employers like ultimate straight arrow owner Bill Casner -- is impeccable. But believe whatever you want. If they're going to make 'examples' of someone like Kellyn Gorder without practical common sense, there's no reason for any trainer to stay in the sport.

Very bizarre compulsion here to pile on a guy who has never shown any signs of being a juicer, but obviously the only explanation for his average to slightly above average success rate over the years has been all the meth he pumps his horses with.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Very bizarre compulsion here to pile on a guy who has never shown any signs of being a juicer.

"Has never shown signs of being a juicer"?

Is that the criteria now? Or is it just the *likeable guys* that can get this type of defense?

The "contamination" defense is laughable. Contaminated by exactly what? What possible explanation could there be for methamphetamine in his barn?

It offers ZERO therapeutic benefit, and is banned in every North American racing jurisdiction.

The Steward Ruling by the KHRC doesn't disclose the amount detected in the sample - I can only presume that the "20 picogram" amount being sited is the threshold - why that isn't "0 picograms" is the head-scratcher.

So the guy starts nearly 1000 horses from 2012 - 2014 and averages a 21.1% win rate, then post-bust it drops to 11%...But he's one of the good guys so how dare anyone presume this is nothing but a witch hunt?


Unreal....

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

"Has never shown signs of being a juicer"?

Is that the criteria now? Or is it just the *likeable guys* that can get this type of defense?

The "contamination" defense is laughable. Contaminated by exactly what? What possible explanation could there be for methamphetamine in his barn?

It offers ZERO therapeutic benefit, and is banned in every North American racing jurisdiction.

The Steward Ruling by the KHRC doesn't disclose the amount detected in the sample - I can only presume that the "20 picogram" amount being sited is the threshold - why that isn't "0 picograms" is the head-scratcher.

So the guy starts nearly 1000 horses from 2012 - 2014 and averages a 21.1% win rate, then post-bust it drops to 11%...But he's one of the good guys so how dare anyone presume this is nothing but a witch hunt?


Unreal....

Is it remotely possible that a worker in the barn had the meth and touched something that the horse ingested?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

"Has never shown signs of being a juicer"?

Is that the criteria now? Or is it just the *likeable guys* that can get this type of defense?

The "contamination" defense is laughable. Contaminated by exactly what? What possible explanation could there be for methamphetamine in his barn?

It offers ZERO therapeutic benefit, and is banned in every North American racing jurisdiction.

The Steward Ruling by the KHRC doesn't disclose the amount detected in the sample - I can only presume that the "20 picogram" amount being sited is the threshold - why that isn't "0 picograms" is the head-scratcher.

So the guy starts nearly 1000 horses from 2012 - 2014 and averages a 21.1% win rate, then post-bust it drops to 11%...But he's one of the good guys so how dare anyone presume this is nothing but a witch hunt?


Unreal....

Show me his big move-ups off trainer switches. Show me his increased breakdown rate. Show me his litany of suspensions or fines. Your numbers are just the basis for irresponsible conjecture. He's been in the high teens in win % pretty much his whole career and you showed me one outlier on each side, both of which apparently prove your point.

I'm not a doctor or a scientist, but what is the more logical conclusion? That he's been shooting his horses up with meth to be a slightly above-average trainer for years, or that one horse of his came in contact with an almost incomprehensibly small amount of it for one reason or another?

I'm not saying he shouldn't be scrutinized or even suspended, but the pitchforks and scalp cravings should be reserved for real cheaters, who clearly game the system again and again. There hasn't been a whiff of suspicion around Kellyn Gorder until this moment, so excuse me if I give someone the benefit of the doubt for once.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Kasept

It's sad that anyone here would immediately presume the worst of a person like Kellyn Gorder, not to mention gleefully celebrate him having to deal with this kind of problem. He's had one clenbuterol overage from 1700+ starters in 10+ years, but behind the scenes has been using Class 1 drugs that readily test at any lab? Right.. That makes perfect sense.

His reputation as a horseman among his peers -- and employers like ultimate straight arrow owner Bill Casner -- is impeccable. But believe whatever you want. If they're going to make 'examples' of someone like Kellyn Gorder without practical common sense, there's no reason for any trainer to stay in the sport.

I think its funny that your upset that people have cynical feelings regarding this situation, feelings that have been developed not on this singular instance but over tons of cases and long periods of time for those that follow racing.

The reaction has nothing to do with Gorder and everything to do with the sport.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I think its funny that your upset that people have cynical feelings regarding this situation, feelings that have been developed not on this singular instance but over tons of cases and long periods of time for those that follow racing.

The reaction has nothing to do with Gorder and everything to do with the sport.

Baloney. 'Cynical reaction' is a lazy response.

People here that don't participate in the sport close up have had the benefit of Chuck Simon in particular attempting to educate them regarding the nuances between 'drug positives' and 'medication overages' and the unique elements of operating a public stable. I've tried to do the same in 10 years of broadcasting ATR with features like the RMTC reports and Horse Health with Dr. Allday.

There is more than enough data for people to fairly discern what is identifiable as edge-taking, outright attempts to cheat and circumstances that are readily understandable and/or logically explainable. If you're cynical, it's about you.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Baloney. 'Cynical reaction' is a lazy response.

People here that don't participate in the sport close up have had the benefit of Chuck Simon in particular attempting to educate them regarding the nuances between 'drug positives' and 'medication overages' and the unique elements of operating a public stable. I've tried to do the same in 10 years of broadcasting ATR with features like the RMTC reports and Horse Health with Dr. Allday.

There is more than enough data for people to fairly discern what is identifiable as edge-taking, outright attempts to cheat and circumstances that are readily understandable and/or logically explainable. If you're cynical, it's about you.

Your opinion is biased, I just read the article, the is more evidence than you are suggesting.

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I think its funny that your upset that people have cynical feelings regarding this situation, feelings that have been developed not on this singular instance but over tons of cases and long periods of time for those that follow racing.

The reaction has nothing to do with Gorder and everything to do with the sport.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Wonder why?!

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Wonder why?!

thats amazing

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Wonder why?!

It's obviously the well-known "Kellyn Gorder Effect", in which a trainer nobody gave two sh!ts about 5 minutes ago becomes the reason for all of US horse racing's ills.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by -BT-

makes sense, i thought with his name, he was a women
also, makes sense, b/c i thought he/she was a "live" trainer......and now i know the answer to both

-bt-

what?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Danzig

what?

You're a women, you wouldn't understand.