Race to breed or breed to race?

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I know him Mike....and you know that....so I don't know what you are trying to prove here. He's done a remarkable job, we all know that, and if we didn't you have reminded us many times. None of this detracts from some of the issues raised and every time someone raises one there is NOT a need for another one of your posts praising how wonderful he is in your eyes. It is irrelevent.

Some could say your defense of Beyer is the same.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Some could say your defense of Beyer is the same.

That is a pretty good point. However, Pletcher is able to back up his work...Beyer isnt.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

That is a pretty good point. However, Pletcher is able to back up his work...Beyer isnt.

Bull**** Euro.
Guy wrote the best books ever, books that educated many about what biases were, trainer intent, z patterns, speed figs, etc.
The DRF used to have archaic speed figures(if you wanna call them that) and now uses his figs.
He was also one of the first widely known guys to form syndicates that attacked big pools because he grasped it made the chances of hitting one better.
So much of what he has done is taken for granted now, that he no longer gets credit for it.
Hes backed up quite a lot in my opinion.

BTW, I brought up his family life and demeanor because it IS RELEVANT when discussing how he gets so many owners.
People tend to trust and wanna do business with these types of folks, its no different than choosing a lawyer, doctor, or financial advisor.
If Dutrow had Todd's demeanor and personal reputation, how many more horses do you think he's have?
The way you conduct yourself off the track DOES matter when you are a horse trainer.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Bull**** Euro.
Guy wrote the best books ever, books that educated many about what biases were, trainer intent, z patterns, speed figs, etc.
The DRF used to have archaic speed figures(if you wanna call them that) and now uses his figs.
He was also one of the first widely known guys to form syndicates that attacked big pools because he grasped it made the chances of hitting one better.
So much of what he has done is taken for granted now, that he no longer gets credit for it.
Hes backed up quite a lot in my opinion.

His are theories and ideas that are much harder to prove.

Dont get me wrong, but I like Beyer and respect the man greatly. But, it is a philosophy and using numbers and analyzing them. It is all theory. Great theory!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by eurobounce

His are theories and ideas that are much harder to prove.

In theory I suppose thats true, but hes got a "pretty good resume" in regards to what hes done.
He changed the way the game was viewed almost singlehandedly.

Originally Posted by oracle80

In theory I suppose thats true, but hes got a "pretty good resume" in regards to what hes done.
He changed the way the game was viewed almost singlehandedly.

I agree...but it is all theory--it is darn good theory. My grandpa cannot stand beyer. He is like...we were using his ideas back in the 40's. Now if that is true or not, I do not know.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I agree...but it is all theory--it is darn good theory. My grandpa cannot stand beyer. He is like...we were using his ideas back in the 40's. Now if that is true or not, I do not know.

Well I know that he made things like "bias" and "trip notes" household words for horseplayers.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Dixie Porter

I did not use any type of speed figures but I sure as Hell discovered track bias (early 50's) and made a fortune with trip notes before video replays killed that golden goose. I also found "Ussery's alley" @ Aqu. for Bobby. The rest is history.

For those keeping score at home be sure to add these to your list....


- Dixie discovered track bias

- He discovered " Ussary's Alley " for jockey Bobby Ussary ( and that thief took credit for it....should be known as " Dixie's Alley " ).


OMG!

What I mean by the Beyer thing is that noone has to tell me the guy took a passion and speed figure system and turned it into millions of bucks and generated an entire new generation of players and how they viewed the game.
But when someone criticizes a split variant on two races run an hour apart at Calder, or articles written criticizing suspected cheaters while writing a flowering praise column on a guy with multiple postives, I think those are legitimate criticisms.
It doesn't mean I don't admire the **** out of him and what hes done, but you get the point.