The state of Golf down worldwide

[Benny]

Not just horseracing is down. and who ever heard of Footgolf and Topgolf ?

http://www.businessinsider.com/golf-...merica-2014-12

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Benny

Not just horseracing is down. and who ever heard of Footgolf and Topgolf ?

http://www.businessinsider.com/golf-...merica-2014-12

Todays generation are basically veal. My gaming platform was a bat and ball

[GPK]

That article lost me when it said a rules of golf book is some 200 pages long and too big tote around in a golf bag. A 3x5 paperback weighing less than 1lb is too big to put it your golf bag? 20+ years of playing tournament level golf and a rule book was never my problem. A years worth of caddying on the LPGA tour hauling a 40+lb golf bag 5-6 a days a week, and I assure you the rule book was consistently the lightest item in the bag.

[hi_im_god]

Plus the are 25 of people like me who have never owned or read the rule book for everyone like you. I'm afraid it won't mention anything about the mulligans that are a regular part of my game.

Where do pro football players carry their copies of the NFL rule book?

[GPK]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

Plus the are 25 of people like me who have never owned or read the rule book for everyone like you. I'm afraid it won't mention anything about the mulligans that are a regular part of my game.

Where do pro football players carry their copies of the NFL rule book?

And there is certainly nothing wrong with the type of golfer you describe. I think that's a core group that doesn't need to be ignored. Not everyone wants to always "play by the rules." Frankly, who cares? That money spends the same. That group of golfer never plays tournaments, save the occasional charity captains choice tourney.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by GPK

And there is certainly nothing wrong with the type of golfer you describe. I think that's a core group that doesn't need to be ignored. Not everyone wants to always "play by the rules." Frankly, who cares? That money spends the same. That group of golfer never plays tournaments, save the occasional charity captains choice tourney.

I play regularly with a 20 plus handicapper (being polite) who this summer hit the pin on a par 3 drive, leaving it 20 feet plus and wanted credit for a hole-in-one. I pointed out that's not what the rules say.

We were playing for a $1 a stroke so I said, "What the hell I'll give it to you." When we finished I had beat him by 6 strokes but he had a hole in one on a scorecard and gladly bought drinks for everyone in the clubhouse with a big fat tip for the bartender. $200

Sometimes rules are meant to be broken.

Oops that maybe considered red-boarding. "Oh what the hell"

[Benny]

Curious that a stupid,ill conceived sentence, derails all discussion of the downward spiral of golf written in the piece.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Benny

Curious that a stupid,ill conceived sentence, derails all discussion of the downward spiral of golf written in the piece.

So, what about that article or the state of the game in general would you like to discuss?

[Benny]

Originally Posted by GPK

So, what about that article or the state of the game in general would you like to discuss?

Well, without rereading it, i was not aware of the big downturn, and the demographics of golfershas skewed up to the rich being a higher % than before as the middleclass has not returned after the recession. That the boomers have not skewed up ,and the millenials also not interested. golf courses closing, and this Topgolf and footgolf were a surprise. My own golfing down due to med conditions,so i am a bit behind. Also, why golf rates dont reduce to get more people to golf. Starters...

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Benny

Well, without rereading it, i was not aware of the big downturn, and the demographics of golfershas skewed up to the rich being a higher % than before as the middleclass has not returned after the recession. That the boomers have not skewed up ,and the millenials also not interested. golf courses closing, and this Topgolf and footgolf were a surprise. My own golfing down due to med conditions,so i am a bit behind. Also, why golf rates dont reduce to get more people to golf. Starters...

Thanks for the response. At the moment, I have a 5yo sweet girl that is wanting some daddy/daughter time. I will have time on my hands tonight and a novel will most likely ensue. This is a very personal matter for me.

[declansharbor]

I'm eager to see what local courses (if any) implement the basketball rim sized holes. Maybe then I'll be able to put my Scotty to good use and sink a damn putt over 10 feet!

[3kings]

Originally Posted by Benny

Well, without rereading it, i was not aware of the big downturn, and the demographics of golfershas skewed up to the rich being a higher % than before as the middleclass has not returned after the recession. That the boomers have not skewed up ,and the millenials also not interested. golf courses closing, and this Topgolf and footgolf were a surprise. My own golfing down due to med conditions,so i am a bit behind. Also, why golf rates dont reduce to get more people to golf. Starters...

I have golfed all my life and the reason I play less is because it takes to long. I don't want to invest the minimum of five hours that it takes on a regular basis. I got out of the habit of playing weekly because I didn't want to miss my son's games on weekends. I don't miss it as much as I thought I would. My idea to make golf more popular is to make it 11 holes. The first hole is practice and than your score is based on your best nine of the next ten.

[GPK]

Condensed version:

#1 Too many, high end, daily fee golf courses. Very few private clubs closing and not too many lower end public courses closing either.
#2 Golf club market is beyond saturated, thanks to 2 companies in particular. I could rant forever about one of them, but I will refrain. Assholes...
#3 Too costly. A great deal of that reverts back to #1. All these high end daily fee courses trying to maintain lush playing conditions have to pass on that cost to the consumer. Hopefully the movement that ClubCorp and Pinehurst resorts started this year during the US Opens will take hold. Less grass, less water, less fertilzer=LESS COST If courses can do that, and cut $75-$100k in expenses, that's a good size nut not being passed on.

I refuse to buy the excuse "the game is too hard." What a crock of sh*t. The game is as easy to play as it has ever been. I would have hated to see some of these people take up the game back when the game was really hard.

I think (and hope) that golf makes a comeback. Some of the things that aren't working and haven't been working will be weeded out. Not sure if the game will return to the heights that it once enjoyed, but I'm convinced that's probably a good thing.

[Heels1989]

Agree with both Tom and Kevin above on all points. When I lived in the DC area, to play a reasonably priced public course usually meant a 30 to 60 min drive outside the beltway. The drive combined with a 5+ hr round essentially meant a full day commitment. And many of these courses were still charging in excess of $75 on the weekend.

Two other points I think are factors:
1. The Tiger effect. When Tiger was at the top, even if you were not a fan, you still would watch golf because you would likely see something amazing. He also had cool commercials which appealed to a wide variety of people which brought greater interest and attention to golf. I believe there is a direct correlation between the down turn in golf interest and his fall from grace off the course and dominance on the course. I know I do not watch golf like I once did and that includes majors which would be must see TV for me in the past

2. Smart phones. There was a time not too long ago you could go to the course to get away from the outside world. Now you hit a shot and likely check your phone for messages, tweets, sports scores, race results etc before you hit your next shot. A lot can happen in the outside world during a 5 hr round. Twitter, Facebook, social media outlets have conditioned us for immediate info updates. Not saying its a bad thing, just the way it is. A modern day element adding to a good walk spoiled.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Heels1989

Agree with both Tom and Kevin above on all points. When I lived in the DC area, to play a reasonably priced public course usually meant a 30 to 60 min drive outside the beltway. The drive combined with a 5+ hr round essentially meant a full day commitment. And many of these courses were still charging in excess of $75 on the weekend.

Two other points I think are factors:
1. The Tiger effect. When Tiger was at the top, even if you were not a fan, you still would watch golf because you would likely see something amazing. He also had cool commercials which appealed to a wide variety of people which brought greater interest and attention to golf. I believe there is a direct correlation between the down turn in golf interest and his fall from grace off the course and dominance on the course. I know I do not watch golf like I once did and that includes majors which would be must see TV for me in the past

2. Smart phones. There was a time not too long ago you could go to the course to get away from the outside world. Now you hit a shot and likely check your phone for messages, tweets, sports scores, race results etc before you hit your next shot. A lot can happen in the outside world during a 5 hr round. Twitter, Facebook, social media outlets have conditioned us for immediate info updates. Not saying its a bad thing, just the way it is. A modern day element adding to a good walk spoiled.

So, I'm all for leaving our cell phones in the car next round.

[Bigsmc]

For me, it's all about the time investment. I cannot do the 5hr rounds on a regular basis. The pace of play is a huge problem for me. It's nothing new, but as I get older, I can't tolerate it like I could in the past. My typical round is to tee off at first light (zero exaggeration there, I've lost many a stray ball on the first tee because we couldn't see well enough) and get home by 10am. I've turned down many invites to play between 9am and noon. I can't give up a full day for a round of golf.

Living in Florida, the amount of courses within a short drive of my home has driven prices down. The courses that haven't reduced rates, have not survived. So, the cost is not an issue. There are many courses around here subscribing to the less water and chemicals maintenance plan as Kev described. I'm not a huge fan, but have grown used to hitting off rougher fairways and rougher rough as long as the greens aren't skimped upon and putts roll true. I understand that these courses are in full survival mode.

[golfer]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

For me, it's all about the time investment. I cannot do the 5hr rounds on a regular basis. The pace of play is a huge problem for me. It's nothing new, but as I get older, I can't tolerate it like I could in the past. My typical round is to tee off at first light (zero exaggeration there, I've lost many a stray ball on the first tee because we couldn't see well enough) and get home by 10am. I've turned down many invites to play between 9am and noon. I can't give up a full day for a round of golf.

Living in Florida, the amount of courses within a short drive of my home has driven prices down. The courses that haven't reduced rates, have not survived. So, the cost is not an issue. There are many courses around here subscribing to the less water and chemicals maintenance plan as Kev described. I'm not a huge fan, but have grown used to hitting off rougher fairways and rougher rough as long as the greens aren't skimped upon and putts roll true. I understand that these courses are in full survival mode.

I have basically stopped playing for the last 6 months or so. Cost and pace of play are big factors. For me, $35 to $45 minimum for a round of golf here in Jacksonville is too expensive. I realize that this may seem reasonable to many, but I know for a fact in Kevin's area, golf is plentiful and much cheaper, especially during the weekdays.

As far as pace of play goes, I know a 2 or 3some can tool around 18 holes in 3 to 3.5 hours on a delay-free course. But you certainly are hard pressed to find that on the weekend, anywhere. We have lost a bunch of local courses over the last 5 to 10 years, which is probably a factor in the pace of play issue as well.

It seems to me from where I sit, that golf courses attempt to make up for lost revenue from less play by getting more $ from the people to do come out (this is perception, not necessarily reality). Which isn't a great way of doing business as far as I'm concerned.

It also doesn't help watching a certain kid (who will not be named) out drive you by 50 yards (MINIMUM) on every tee-shot, but that's a problem for me to deal with, and has little to do with the overall topic

[jms62]

I guess I am fortunate as I live 10 minutes from a course and the group I am with has had first tee time Sat and Sunday for 15 years. During the spring and summer we are out at 6:30 and off by 9:30 or 10. Cost is reasonable around 2700 for year which gets you unlimited play but you need to use(pay for) cart on weekends. Those getting out on this course 10 am usually face a 6 hour round. I wouldnt play if I were facing that especially when Toga opens.

[Benny]

Originally Posted by jms62

I guess I am fortunate as I live 10 minutes from a course and the group I am with has had first tee time Sat and Sunday for 15 years. During the spring and summer we are out at 6:30 and off by 9:30 or 10. Cost is reasonable around 2700 for year which gets you unlimited play but you need to use(pay for) cart on weekends. Those getting out on this course 10 am usually face a 6 hour round. I wouldnt play if I were facing that especially when Toga opens.

Yes, you are fortunate. Those 5-6 hour weekend rounds are no fun,havenot done it for years,but others have little choice.

Then there is the topic of rangers and keeping up the pace of play. how many courses now have aggressive rules to keep things moving ?

Some people should not be out on a course that iss too hard for them, but should be on 9 holers, or on pitch and putt courses, this is a big reason for slow play and 6 hour rounds. Guys hear about courses and want to play but donot have the ability to play and don't care, and the courses don't say or do anything to keep up play.,

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Benny

Some people should not be out on a course that iss too hard for them, but should be on 9 holers, or on pitch and putt courses, this is a big reason for slow play and 6 hour rounds. Guys hear about courses and want to play but donot have the ability to play and don't care, and the courses don't say or do anything to keep up play.,

Completely agree with you, and hitting into a group to get them going is a lost art.