NYRA Late Pick 5

[Kasept]

[taxicab]

Originally Posted by Kasept

You said everyone took their money to other venues. They didn't. The potential of the wager to an unrestricted audience is a different discussion. That wasn't the discussion you initiated, so take your bait and switch tactics elsewhere..

Of course they took their money where they could bet it......that's why they're at the track.......to bet their money.......they couldn't bet their money on the P-5 yesterday........the betting public was unhappy,they didn't like it.
It's that simple.
And I didn't bait and switch anything,I'm just pointing out how the betting public reacts to a restricted wager..........in this case it's the restricted NYRA P-5.

[jms62]

Now that we are chomping at the bit when they open this up to everyone for Saratoga meet it will be a huge hit.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by taxicab

Pretzel Logic.
Here's why:
If Yesterday's P-5 from Belmont was open to everybody throughout North America(all race tracks/OTB/ADW's) the handle on that bet alone would of cracked 2 million minimum.......maybe 3 million.

This is hilariously wrong.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Kasept

This is one of the best things I've ever seen.

[herkhorse]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The bet is actually available anywhere in NY State, and not only to NYRA Bets customers, for what it's worth. If you want to play it out of NY State, you need to bet through NYRA Bets.

Thanks for posting this.

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by Kasept

And it may be a provincial acknowledgement, but the revenue generated by NYRA Bets ~ because it's considered as 'at the track' wagering ~ substantially benefits the capital improvement, backstretch and breeding programs in New York.

This is absolutely the critical point. The NYRA Bets Late Pick 5 is an effort (experiment) by NYRA to regain control of a single parimutuel pool that has been requested by bettors. When you are talking about NYRA races, pool size is not the issue, so we are seeing NYRA using their market leadership to gain exclusivity for a new bet.

To those without New York ADW or NYRA Bets access, this might seem like it is decreasing the pool size. However, it is really clear that NYRA has NOT taken this Late Pick-5 pool as just another revenue source. NYRA is strategically testing their ability to control the product - meaning owning the racing, the signal, and the mutuel pool.

While this might be "complicated", NYRA is doing something BRILLIANT to rebuild their wagering market.

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by taxicab

Of course they took their money where they could bet it......that's why they're at the track.......to bet their money.......they couldn't bet their money on the P-5 yesterday........the betting public was unhappy,they didn't like it.
It's that simple.
And I didn't bait and switch anything,I'm just pointing out how the betting public reacts to a restricted wager..........in this case it's the restricted NYRA P-5.

If NYRA decided that the Late Pick 5 was an open pool across the board at Saratoga, the wagering dollars would flow and this discussion would be soon forgotten.

Instead, the test is being done during the closing two weeks to see whether NYRA's control of the pool - and possibly increasing the reach of NYRABets in the pre-Saratoga weeks at Belmont - could be a BUILDING strategy.

You might not realize it, but NYRA's decision is bold, opposite the trend, and looks to protect the wagering business.

[ScottJ]

Much of this discussion has been focused on the Late Pick-5 betting aspects and the feeling from many players that they are being excluded from this wager.

Ask yourself a couple of really basic questions.

[1] Do you think that NYRA staff does not understand that opening the Late Pick-5 pool would increase the handle? (Answer : Of course they know this. So, there must be a reason WHY they are willing for forego the short-term handle increase.)

[2] Do you think that the timing of the current NYRA-Bets only Pick-5 during the closing fortnight at Belmont is an accident with Saratoga opening on July 21st? (Answer : Of course this is not an accident, but a well-constructed experiment.)

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Do you think the people behind this decision didn't understand that the bet would handle a fraction of what it could handle? Have you considered all the reasons this might be being done?

It's a complex discussion. Most are. Simply whittling it down to "it would be handling much more the other way" can't be the best way to look at it.

Did not realize that Andy had already offered the same analysis on the previous page - apologies for the replay.

[KidCruz]

Originally Posted by Kasept

And it may be a provincial acknowledgement, but the revenue generated by NYRA Bets ~ because it's considered as 'at the track' wagering ~ substantially benefits the capital improvement, backstretch and breeding programs in New York.

Respectfully Steve, this logic is such a stretch that even NYRA themselves hasn't reached this deep into the reasoning jar for it.


Remember in the winter when Andy made the extremely cogent and necessary criticism of the Pegasus purse structure? What if Gulfstream had said "Hey! Promoting this as a $12 million dollar race allows us to get on NBC and allows us to bring in more handle, HELPING DEVELOPMENT AND BACKSTRETCH EMPLOYEES?" Would that have been sound enough reasoning?

How about when Steve Crist (boy do we miss his voice) went right at Churchill Downs for the shameful siphoning of the Derby Day Pick 6 pool to build a pot for a jackpot bet? What if Churchill Downs came out and said "Hey! By building this jackpot pool, we will exponentially increase daily handle in a sagging bet, TRIGGERING CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS." Would that have been sound enough reasoning?

Everything is about dollars and cents and trying to sugar coat it with some altruistic idea about development and the backstretch is completely unfair and a benefit of the doubt the rest of the industry would not and should not get.

This is a promotion to draw customers to their ADW. Trying to present it as anything else is slap in the face, especially to people who have betting NYRA all their lives in PA, NJ etc.

[Kasept]

I was referring to the benefits of the overall revenue that NYRA Bets generates.. not suggesting it as a justification for the promotion. However, I will reiterate that the platform provides more benefit to the industry by its' design than any other betting operation. And I acknowledged it's a provincial view, but as a stable, I'm involved in breeding and racing NY breds and have a vested interest.

As you said, they're trying to draw people to the platform. Despite the excluded jurisdictions, it's available to a vast majority of players. It's an imperfect concept.

[Benny]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I was referring to the benefits of the overall revenue that NYRA Bets generates.. not suggesting it as a justification for the promotion. However, I will reiterate that the platform provides more benefit to the industry by its' design than any other betting operation. And I acknowledged it's a provincial view, but as a stable, I'm involved in breeding and racing NY breds and have a vested interest.

As you said, they're trying to draw people to the platform. Despite the excluded jurisdictions, it's available to a vast majority of players. It's an imperfect concept.

It would be interesting to hear from Mr Allevato on ATR, ???

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Benny

It would be interesting to hear from Mr Allevato on ATR, ???

Good suggestion Benny. We has planned to do a segment at Saratoga last summer but ran out of time.

[KidCruz]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I was referring to the benefits of the overall revenue that NYRA Bets generates.. not suggesting it as a justification for the promotion. However, I will reiterate that the platform provides more benefit to the industry by its' design than any other betting operation. And I acknowledged it's a provincial view, but as a stable, I'm involved in breeding and racing NY breds and have a vested interest.

As you said, they're trying to draw people to the platform. Despite the excluded jurisdictions, it's available to a vast majority of players. It's an imperfect concept.

I can concur with that. It's an awesome bet that excludes players.

[jnunan4759]

I've been thinking a lot about this and the TV programs.

I love it because I've played NY for 40 years. NY is over 25% (Maybe more) of the US handle for the year. Most of that is through ADW's or other tracks. NYRAets lets them take more of that handle as if it is on-track.

Does it help NY horsemen, absolutely. Does it help NYRA, yes too.

I think this is an ingenious plan, the more I think of it.

[saratogadew]

Originally Posted by taxicab

Of course they took their money where they could bet it......that's why they're at the track.......to bet their money.......they couldn't bet their money on the P-5 yesterday........the betting public was unhappy,they didn't like it.
It's that simple.
And I didn't bait and switch anything,I'm just pointing out how the betting public reacts to a restricted wager..........in this case it's the restricted NYRA P-5.

I can only speak for myself. I am a Pick 5 player. I will be "on track" at the Spa about 10-12 times this summer. I will not be playing the late Pick 5 at all. If the bet was open to everyone, I would play it 100%. I will take that money and play the Del Mar Pick 5.

[taxicab]

Originally Posted by saratogadew

I can only speak for myself. I am a Pick 5 player. I will be "on track" at the Spa about 10-12 times this summer. I will not be playing the late Pick 5 at all. If the bet was open to everyone, I would play it 100%. I will take that money and play the Del Mar Pick 5.

True horseplayer.

[NTamm1215]

Unless you equally follow both circuits and aren't just typically gambling, why would you pass on a low takeout wager with a smaller pool that offers a huge incentive should you be the lone ticket? Both wagers are going to pay significantly more than the parlay and when you're at the track, you are now able to play.

Passing on that is not being a true horseplayer. It's being truly myopic.

[taxicab]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Unless you equally follow both circuits and aren't just typically gambling, why would you pass on a low takeout wager with a smaller pool that offers a huge incentive should you be the lone ticket? Both wagers are going to pay significantly more than the parlay and when you're at the track, you are now able to play.

Passing on that is not being a true horseplayer. It's being truly myopic.

Well....
I think Saratogadew made it quite clear in his post.
He said: "If the bet was open to everyone,I would play it 100%".
That is a player taking a stand,voicing his opinion with his bankroll.........a true horseplayer.