The ever INNOVATIVE Kent D

[Handicappy]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

This is only Kent's third season at Saratoga so all of this had to have happened since 2006. I dont doubt it happened. My point is that I dont remember the race or the horse and i doubt many others do. It is rather insignificant.

Without being on Big Brown it is impossible for you or I to know what the horse was feeling like. I would imagine after the Eight Belles tragedy that Kent was going to be a little cautious. How do you know that the owner didnt give him "just in case" instructions? It would be extremely ignorant to think that Kent pulled him up because he didnt feel like riding him out.

When I read the critiques on racing forums heaped upon ride after ride I find myself wondering how many critics have EVER been on top of a horse. Sometimes, horses just dont do what you want them to. No matter, if the race doesnt come out like planned, its automatically the jockey's fault. Some rides will be "good" and some "bad" but at the end of the day more times than not the best horse wins.

There are basic laws of business. If your gardner is bad and your yard looks like crap, you find a new gardner. If Kent continuously gives bad rides and is this awful symbol, how does he continue to get good mounts? Are all of these people stupid? Bill Mott stupid?

When I first got to this site all i ever saw was people beating the crap out of Gomez. Now, I dont ever see a word. Did he suddenly learn how to ride? Or is he just getting better horses?

For the record, I am not denying that a ride CAN make a difference in a race. At the same time, the laws of averages kick in.

A healthy debate really requires more of a response than "it is rather insignificant". It wasn't to the dam of Capote's Crown who was being sold and a Grade 1 stakes placing would have sent the cost up another 3 million dollars. Nor was it to the fans, handicappers who included him in their tri's.

The law of averages assumes a given set of consistent variables. With Kent you never know what kind of ride you are going to get. His mood/disagreeable nature/insecurities all factor in. With other jocks you don't have so many of these kinds of factors that filter into their rides.

Trainers ride Jock's for all sorts of reasons. Dutrow has made it clear he wouldn't have him on his horses except the owners have told him that they want him. That frequently happens. As for what happened at Belmont no one knows for sure. I think the combination of a horse that wasn't as fit as he needed to be along with a horrible ride were the main factors. What was the most prominent factor is anyone's guess. I mean it was Da Tara out there. We aren't talking about Affirmed and Alydar here.

But I have seen it so often in the last three years. When Kent is rounding the turn with a horse he is giving up on, he doesn't ride him and pulls him up very quickly at or just past the finish which is always very bad for the horse. And I challenge you to watch him after the finish line and see how far he gallops his horses out. I was at Churchill at the beginning of July and the fans were all over him there for doing that. There are many trainers who won't ride him now. I assume there will be more to come. He hasn't put up his house on Long Island for no reason. He's fixing to move on AGAIN.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Handicappy

It wasn't to the dam of Capote's Crown who was being sold and a Grade 1 stakes placing would have sent the cost up another 3 million dollars.

Sorry to digress, but I'm confused as to how Capote's Crown getting third in a Grade 1 would have elevated her dam's price by three million dollars. What am I missing?

[ELA]

When a jock doesn't fully ride out a horse -- in the example of a filly/mare -- in a graded stake, costing the horse 3rd and winding up 4th, yes, we all know the costs. The jock, absent of some immediate concern or problem, is 100% to blame.

Have I seen it happen? Yes. Have I seen it happen in overnight races? Yes.

Question -- if a jock is called out by the stewards for not fully riding out to the wire, does the jock always get days, or is just a fine (with no days) a possibile penalty?

Eric

[Handicappy]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Sorry to digress, but I'm confused as to how Capote's Crown getting third in a Grade 1 would have elevated her dam's price by three million dollars. What am I missing?

Good Question. It had to do with breeding, getting the grade one placing, that negoiation that was going on during that meet. Multiple factors actually. But if you see Chris McCarron, ask him he taught the course to help emphasize the importance of a jockey's ride as extending further than just a particular race. By the way, caught the Siro's gig when I was in Saratoga for the week a couple of weeks ago. Good job. Interesting show. I may catch it again on Saturday. Trying to find a horse to beat Curlin.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Handicappy

Good Question. It had to do with breeding, getting the grade one placing, that negoiation that was going on during that meet. Multiple factors actually. But if you see Chris McCarron, ask him he taught the course to help emphasize the importance of a jockey's ride as extending further than just a particular race. By the way, caught the Siro's gig when I was in Saratoga for the week a couple of weeks ago. Good job. Interesting show. I may catch it again on Saturday. Trying to find a horse to beat Curlin.

Thanks.... but it was a rhetorical question.

Desourmeaux's failing to ride out mounts is more than unfortunate. It did not, however, make the dam of Capote's Crown worth 3 million dollars less. You do realize her value had little to do with Capote's Crown I assume.

[Handicappy]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Thanks.... but it was a rhetorical question.

Desourmeaux's failing to ride out mounts is more than unfortunate. It did not, however, make the dam of Capote's Crown worth 3 million dollars less. You do realize her value had little to do with Capote's Crown I assume.

I really don't. If the dam produces a grade 1 placing from her off-spring, her value does increase. That would only make sense. Doesn't it?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Handicappy

I really don't. If the dam produces a grade 1 placing from her off-spring, her value does increase. That would only make sense. Doesn't it?

Having a foal finish third in a Grade 1 is not going to add three million dollars of value to a dam's worth.

That particular dam's value was established by two other foals of her's. If Capote's Crown had wings, and won a Grade 1 ( she was a very mediocre horse ), that would have added to the mare's value. However, considering her progeny, Capote's Crown ( even with a third in a Grade 1 ) was hardly going to increase her value substantially....and nowhere close to three million dollars.

You do realize we're talking about the dam of Smoke Glacken.....don't you?

[blackthroatedwind]

By the way, the most important reason Desormeaux did not affect the dam's value if he cost Capote's Crown a Grade 1 placing is probably that she was 21 years old at the time.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Having a foal finish third in a Grade 1 is not going to add three million dollars of value to a dam's worth.

That particular dam's value was established by two other foals of her's. If Capote's Crown had wings, and won a Grade 1 ( she was a very mediocre horse ), that would have added to the mare's value. However, considering her progeny, Capote's Crown ( even with a third in a Grade 1 ) was hardly going to increase her value substantially....and nowhere close to three million dollars.

You do realize we're talking about the dam of Smoke Glacken.....don't you?

and smokey glacken

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

and smokey glacken

Obviously.

Didn't a half win here over the last couple of weeks? I know one ran.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Obviously.

Didn't a half win here over the last couple of weeks? I know one ran.

Yes, by Sky Mesa. Argyle Pink.

[alysheba4]

desormeaux doesnt sleep.......he waits.

[The Bid]

Dedumbeaux

[philcski]

Originally Posted by alysheba4

desormeaux doesnt sleep.......he waits.

Who is he, Chuck Norris?

[the_fat_man]

Lost in all this is that Johnny V's ride, in the same race, was about as bad as it gets: not only did he blow the chances for his horse but he screwed up the race dynamics and handed the race to HF.