Questions for PointGiven1985

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

So, after winning a $400,000 2yo stake race by double digit lengths, with a 110 Beyer (has any 2yo ever run a Beyer that high in a route race since they've been published in the form?)

He was than 10/1 off that Performance in the Foutain of Youth....which he won by like 6 lengths?

I know you know you're earlier comment wasn't fair. It was pure bullshit. You know that.

It was nowhere close to BS and you have further proved my point with this drivel. " 400K 2YO stake race ". It was one of those bloated purse stakes at Calder that may well have been restricted to Florida Breds. How come you didn't include that more pertinent information?

If you weren't trying to prove this particular point you would be saying how he won the FOY by taking advantage of a bias.

Please, manipulating Trust N Luck's record to somehow justify that Empire Maker should have been 3YO champ is beneath you. If you want to use Crist's argument, fine, as while I don't agree with him at least he stuck to defendable reasons. Or, perhaps I'm wrong, and Steve also said Empire Maker was a deserving winner because he beat a " Grade 1 winner and conquerer of a $400K 2YO stake " while winning the Florida Derby.

I expect better from a high quality poster such as yourself. And, oh yeah, I'm jealous of your good looks.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Unlike Smarty Jones' day, when no one cheered after Birdstone crossed the wire in front, I gave a little cheer for "The Empire" after he righted the wrong from the Kentucky Derby by winning the Belmont Stakes. I think that he was much the better horse, but Funny Cide -- who I've come to root for the last three years, because he is on the track -- accomplished more that year.

I was thrilled, and hardly at all surprised, that Empire Maker dominated Funny Cide in the Belmont. I think there is zero doubt he was the better horse. However, he didn't deserve 3YO honors.


Any sane person knows Dynever deserved that Eclipse.

[blackthroatedwind]

I see even you were so embarrassed by the inclusion of " $400K " that you edited it out.

Set....match.

[boswd]

You can talk all you want about woulda's shoulda's coulda's or this one has the breeding and showd more potential. The fact remains Funny Cide won the Derby, won the Preakness came in third in The Belmont. Empire finished off the board in The Derby SKIPPED the Preakness and rested up to win the Belmont. Empire Maker lost a weaker Travers Prep in the Jim Dandy and Funny Cide went on to win the JCGC a year later.

Answer = Funny Cides Woulda's Shoulda's coulda's don't win THE DERBY and the JCGC.(arguably the two most important non BC races in the US) SORRY!!!!!!!!!!

[cmorioles]

I'm sure it was part of the Florida Stallion series.

I also think that Empire Maker loses a few points for skipping the Preakness. He was not, however, off the board in the Derby.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

friends lake ..a true monster that was gone before his time..lol

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by boswd

You can talk all you want about woulda's shoulda's coulda's or this one has the breeding and showd more potential. The fact remains Funny Cide won the Derby, won the Preakness came in third in The Belmont. Empire finished off the board in The Derby SKIPPED the Preakness and rested up to win the Belmont. Empire Maker lost a weaker Travers Prep in the Jim Dandy and Funny Cide went on to win the JCGC a year later.

Answer = Funny Cides Woulda's Shoulda's coulda's don't win THE DERBY and the JCGC.(arguably the two most important non BC races in the US) SORRY!!!!!!!!!!

Empire Maker was second or third ( it was a nose either way to Peace Rules ) in the Derby.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I'm sure it was part of the Florida Stallion series.

I also think that Empire Maker loses a few points for skipping the Preakness. He was not, however, off the board in the Derby.

I thought he came in Fourth if not my mistake, I might be thinking of Point Given.

[KirisClown]

The brilliance of Trust N Luck can be seen here...

Fountain Of Youth: http://www.equinevision.com/vsg/inde...o=performance1

What A Pleasure Stks: http://www.equinevision.com/vsg/inde...o=performance2

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I got rid of the 400K part about five seconds after I hit the submit button...because I knew you would take it the wrong way...this has all been about what appears in the horses form on paper...it seems like you aren't understanding that.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Please, manipulating Trust N Luck's record to somehow justify that Empire Maker should have been 3YO champ is beneath you.

I did nothing of the sort.

The post was in regard to why the public made Trust N Luck the favorite over Empire Maker in the betting.

Perhaps I should have just said the he ran Beyers of 110 and 106 in his last two starts, and the other lost to Man Among Men in the ungraded Sham Stakes...and mentioned the pace scenerio on paper.

The fact that I mentioned his prior win was a Grade 1 (and it was) in no way means I'm trying to mislead anyone about anything

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The fact that I mentioned his prior win was a Grade 1 (and it was) in no way means I'm trying to mislead anyone about anything

The BS meter just exploded in my apartment.

Is it too late for you to do the one thing you are good at and get here with a pail?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Set....match.

Claim victory all you want....

But do know you went Andrew Golota on me in this thread.

If it makes you feel better....I will revise the 2003 Fountain Of Youth to Grade 2 status....even though it factually wasn't.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Sorry...yer right. I meant to say " third in the Sham doesn't carry a lot of weight.

I was confused, as I always felt Master David was robbed in 2004, when they completely ignored HIS devastion of the Sham field and gave the award, foolishly I may add, to Smarty Jones.

HEY! He was my derby horse...

I agree, he should have won the Eclipse hands down.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

FOY which is now rightfully back to grade 2 status ( should be Grade 6 after this past weekend ).

This is the deepest field we have seen so far as a true derby Prep. The Hutcheson and The RB Lewis, both grade II's were better? The FOY was a damn good race.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cardus

I was convinced that Master David was going to win the Derby that year

I'm affraid to say....but.....

on the basis of what?

I think horses like Master David and Friends Lake make Trust N Luck look like Seattle Slew.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I'm affraid to say....but.....

on the basis of what?

I think horses like Master David and Friends Lake make Trust N Luck look like Seattle Slew.

Now THIS I agree with.

Plus, truth be told, Master David was owned by a creep.

[blackthroatedwind]

True. I thought the time was too slow to make sense and being that it was the lone two turn race I also badly misjudged the race.

Truth be told, Master David was partially owned by a friend of mine, so I was rooting for him. Plus, I loathed all the Smarmy Jones fanatics. Man is he lucky it rained that day. Not one horse gained an inch of ground, save Imperialism, and the true measure of how phony that Derby was lay in the fact that Lion Heart, who was on E at the top of the stretch, easily held second.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

True. I thought the time was too slow to make sense and being that it was the lone two turn race I also badly misjudged the race.

Truth be told, Master David was partially owned by a friend of mine, so I was rooting for him. Plus, I loathed all the Smarmy Jones fanatics. Man is he lucky it rained that day. Not one horse gained an inch of ground, save Imperialism, and the true measure of how phony that Derby was lay in the fact that Lion Heart, who was on E at the top of the stretch, easily held second.

Mack?
Last I saw Master David he was running at Finger Lakes.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Mack?
Last I saw Master David he was running at Finger Lakes.

I know... you just had to say that, didn't you? UGH!

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Mack?
Last I saw Master David he was running at Finger Lakes.

No. The owner of Georgica Stables. And I am only being nice about him because he bought me dinner the other night.

He was sold, I believe, to some foreign land.