MARKETING CONVERSATIONS: 2 interesting pieces

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

That is the point. I wasn't picking on Belmont in particular, just the notion that racing has done very little to cater to over HALF the population and to market to a group that has been liberated exponentially over the last 40 years.
Belmont is probably better than some tracks but it still a far cry from where it needs to be.

I know that this is far flung, jay, but lets say you somehow had a date. Would you bring that date to Belmont for a day at the races? How about to Arlington? Maybe? Definitely before Belmont even if live racing was dark. Maybe I am asking the wrong person

You have to compare the venue and the experience it creates to the other entertainment competition.

Dala, I don't understand your point. So if Belmont re-did all the ladies bathrooms, women would flock to the track? What kind of marketing strategy would you propose if you were Belmont?

For the record, I have taken my wife to Belmont when we were dating. I would have actually chosen to take her there over both Old Yankee and Shea stadiums. You want to talk about broken toilets and bad food.
I think Belmont it is a beatiful facility. I want to take the boys their some time soon.

Regardless, it's NY and the entertainment options are endless. Not sure you are really grasping that based on that you really weren't sure who had more horse folk either Kentucky or NY. It's a very tough market for targeting men, let alone women.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Dala, I don't understand your point. So if Belmont re-did all the ladies bathrooms, women would flock to the track? What kind of marketing strategy would you propose if you were Belmont?

For the record, I have taken my wife to Belmont when we were dating. I would have actually chosen to take her there over both Old Yankee and Shea stadiums. You want to talk about broken toilets and bad food.
I think Belmont it is a beatiful facility. I want to take the boys their some time soon.

Regardless, it's NY and the entertainment options are endless. Not sure you are really grasping that based on that you really weren't sure who had more horse folk either Kentucky or NY. It's a very tough market for targeting men, let alone women.

Thanks Math. "redid ladies bathrooms". LOL that would be a start and I'm not kidding either. And there is nothing wrong with what Paolo said either. How about some drinks?

How about some entertainment other than racing? How about going old school and encouraging more A list celebs? How about changing the food? How about using some of the wasted stands space and creating more comfortable lounge areas where people can socialize? How about contests between races? How about some vouchers for women?

There are a number of ideas and not a single silver bullet. At the same time, even though NY is not louisville, you have a rich thoroughbred tradition along a zillion times more people. The prospect of spending the day or evening at the track has got be made interesting to people that aren't yet horseplayers. Isn't that the goal?

How about stripper poles and an area where clowns make balloon animals for kids?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

How about stripper poles and an area where clowns make balloon animals for kids?

Can there be face painting also?

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Can there be face painting also?

YES! Brilliant!

Wynn and Trump will be begging for a piece of the action!!

[TheSpyder]

Welcome back Coach!

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

How about some entertainment other than racing? How about going old school and encouraging more A list celebs? How about changing the food? How about using some of the wasted stands space and creating more comfortable lounge areas where people can socialize? How about contests between races? How about some vouchers for women?

This is getting ridiculous. You basically want to turn Belmont into a nightclub. That's not going to increase handle significantly and it would be a massive investment for maybe a marginal increase in attendance.

Selling this ambiance bullshit for a track that's basically in the sticks compared to New York City is a ridiculous idea.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

This is getting ridiculous. You basically want to turn Belmont into a nightclub. That's not going to increase handle significantly and it would be a massive investment for maybe a marginal increase in attendance.

Selling this ambiance bullshit for a track that's basically in the sticks compared to New York City is a ridiculous idea.

How do you know its marginal joey and what is marginal in your mind? There was a time when poker was in backrooms and seedy speak easy's. There was a time on the strip where you couldn't find the poker room. Now? Its front and center and larger than the sportsbook.

Stronach was dead on with his ideas if not perfect with his execution.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

How do you know its marginal joey and what is marginal in your mind? There was a time when poker was in backrooms and seedy speak easy's. There was a time on the strip where you couldn't find the poker room. Now? Its front and center and larger than the sportsbook.

Stronach was dead on with his ideas if not perfect with his execution.

So poker is thriving because of A-list celebrities, trendy lounges, good food and contests between hands?

No, poker is thriving because the industry sold the idea that regular people can make money at it. Period. All this other fluff you're suggesting would be useless to poker and it's useless to racing. Gambling drives this industry and it's only an increase in gambling that's going to 'save' it.

The idea that Belmont Park could become a trendy social destination for regular people and young women is so laughable it makes me wonder if you've ever been to either Belmont or New York City.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

So poker is thriving because of A-list celebrities, trendy lounges, good food and contests between hands?

No, poker is thriving because the industry sold the idea that regular people can make money at it. Period. All this other fluff you're suggesting would be useless to poker and it's useless to racing. Gambling drives this industry and it's only an increase in gambling that's going to 'save' it.

The idea that Belmont Park could become a trendy social destination for regular people and young women is so laughable it makes me wonder if you've ever been to either Belmont or New York City.

I was in New York City in April to get my hat for the derby. I did not go to belmont then but I have been a few times before.

As I said, perhaps these ideas wouldn't work at belmont but then again maybe they would.

I don't debate that gambling drives the industry and I certainly don't debate that the tracks need more gamblers. But where are you proposing they come from Joey? We are in 2011 in a society that wants what it wants before its even thought about. We are in an instant gratification age and you aren't going to get gamblers out by telling them they are going to solve puzzles while battling a 25% rake where its dirty and they are surrounded by bunch of old men.

The track is a dreary place and that is the perception and in many ways a reality. This has to change somehow. If you think what I am saying is off, throw your thoughts out. Perhaps they make more sense.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I was in New York City in April to get my hat for the derby. I did not go to belmont then but I have been a few times before.

As I said, perhaps these ideas wouldn't work at belmont but then again maybe they would.

I don't debate that gambling drives the industry and I certainly don't debate that the tracks need more gamblers. But where are you proposing they come from Joey? We are in 2011 in a society that wants what it wants before its even thought about. We are in an instant gratification age and you aren't going to get gamblers out by telling them they are going to solve puzzles while battling a 25% rake where its dirty and they are surrounded by bunch of old men.

The track is a dreary place and that is the perception and in many ways a reality. This has to change somehow. If you think what I am saying is off, throw your thoughts out. Perhaps they make more sense.

This is a problem, changing the perception.
Sure, there are some tracks that are dreay places. But on the other end of the spectrum, there are very nice tracks that have good facilities. Places where people and their families/friends can spend a nice day.

As far as getting the gamblers, I really believe that the tracks need to (and have started) targeting the college kids. Plant those seeds, so when these kids graduate and get jobs, they remember their expierences at the track and go back with some cash to put into the pools.

[ateamstupid]

I'm not a marketing expert, but just throwing out terrible ideas doesn't strike me as progress. Just like poker, you have to sell the idea that regular people can make money playing the game. Sell the idea that it's way more exciting, involved and gratifying than mindless zombies pulling a slot lever over and over again. Unfortunately with slots becoming such a big part of the industry, it might not make sense to bash them in ad campaigns, but playing the horses is a unique game with something for everybody: the majesty of incredible animals running at high speeds, being able to spend the day outdoors, an intellectual challenge, plenty of juice during the actual race and big paydays if you play things correctly.

Poker had the luxury of being on TV and having the announcers/coverage actually be focused on the game and the gambling. Unfortunately, all of our national TV coverage is based on weepy-eyed BS, human interest stories and celebrity spotting. Until the coverage is more horseplayer-based, the industry is going to be fighting an uphill battle to attract new gamblers.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Thanks Math. "redid ladies bathrooms". LOL that would be a start and I'm not kidding either. And there is nothing wrong with what Paolo said either. How about some drinks?

How about some entertainment other than racing? How about going old school and encouraging more A list celebs? How about changing the food? How about using some of the wasted stands space and creating more comfortable lounge areas where people can socialize? How about contests between races? How about some vouchers for women?

There are a number of ideas and not a single silver bullet. At the same time, even though NY is not louisville, you have a rich thoroughbred tradition along a zillion times more people. The prospect of spending the day or evening at the track has got be made interesting to people that aren't yet horseplayers. Isn't that the goal?

Here is the list of other things going on at the track (during weekends), they seem pretty plentiful. Also there are things for kids too.

http://nyra.com/Belmont/GeneralInfor...omotions.shtml

I don't see the appeal of drawing celebrities (besides they draw them on Belmont day). If you want to see stars, go to the movies or even better Hollywood.

Have you ever been to Belmont?, (I'm guessing no) because it's colassal. They have more space than they know what to do with. There are plenty of area's where people can hang out and not be bothered (inside and outside the track). Food courts could always be upgraded, but they also have fancy/formal dining options upstairs.

Contests are fun, they should be of the handicapping nature, but I'm all for that. Also vouchers are a great idea. Hell I think they should give them out wherever they can. Unfortunately I think that there is an old law on the books that prohibits it.

Belmont is in a very tough market, there are just so many other entertainment options available. No matter how hard they push, I just don't see them attracting that "Sex in the City" type girl crowd, with their fancy eating/drinking habits on a regular basis.

[Cannon Shell]

I think the whole premise of the guys blog post is being missed.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Here is the list of other things going on at the track (during weekends), they seem pretty plentiful. Also there are things for kids too.

http://nyra.com/Belmont/GeneralInfor...omotions.shtml

I don't see the appeal of drawing celebrities (besides they draw them on Belmont day). If you want to see stars, go to the movies or even better Hollywood.

Have you ever been to Belmont?, (I'm guessing no) because it's colassal. They have more space than they know what to do with. There are plenty of area's where people can hang out and not be bothered (inside and outside the track). Food courts could always be upgraded, but they also have fancy/formal dining options upstairs.

Contests are fun, they should be of the handicapping nature, but I'm all for that. Also vouchers are a great idea. Hell I think they should give them out wherever they can. Unfortunately I think that there is an old law on the books that prohibits it.

Belmont is in a very tough market, there are just so many other entertainment options available. No matter how hard they push, I just don't see them attracting that "Sex in the City" type girl crowd, with their fancy eating/drinking habits on a regular basis.

I have been to belmont a few times. I have been on less busy days (jcgc 2004) and really busy days (smarty 2004). I am not picking on belmont in particular.

Perhaps you are correct and Belmont isn't going to enjoy the type of success churchill has shown recently although I disagree. At the same time, there are other places that could do the same things as churchill and even expand on them. I think you have advantages at other places, seasonally, that you don't enjoy at churchill.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

leave it alone belmont is fine just the way it is..and toga should never be changed..its the reason ny racing is the best in the world