All time best horses

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Holy Bull won less premier races? He won the Met Mile and Woodward as a 3 year old beating very solid older horses. Point Given never beat older horses. The only real loss you can put on Holy Bull was in the Derby when he never lifted a hoof. He was injured in his final career start in the Donn and flipped his palate in the Fountain of Youth.

You gotta be kidding with this stuff.

Agree that Holy Bull beat older horses...again, I put a lot of stock in TC races and Travers, especially if horse wins 2/3 in TC...comes down as I seem to keep repeating to personal opinion. Just fyi, I love the Bull but try to leave personal likes/dislikes out of rating.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Agree that Holy Bull beat older horses...again, I put a lot of stock in TC races and Travers, especially if horse wins 2/3 in TC...comes down as I seem to keep repeating to personal opinion. Just fyi, I love the Bull but try to leave personal likes/dislikes out of rating.

Which is fine, but when you stack up what Point Given was beating in those premier races and then compare it to what Holy Bull was beating in the "less premier races", it's not even really close.

I'd rather look at the specific races and see what was actually in them, rather than just looking at the name of the race. But that is my opinion and realize it isn't shared by everyone.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Which is fine, but when you stack up what Point Given was beating in those premier races and then compare it to what Holy Bull was beating in the "less premier races", it's not even really close.

I'd rather look at the specific races and see what was actually in them, rather than just looking at the name of the race. But that is my opinion and realize it isn't shared by everyone.

No, I agree but remember how Point Given won the Preakness, Belmont and Travers...awesome horse denied TC by bad ride.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

No, I agree but remember how Point Given won the Preakness, Belmont and Travers...awesome horse denied TC by bad ride.

Yes, he dominated bad horses, other than Congaree. You're stuck on the names of the races. We'll just agree to disagree.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Agree that Holy Bull beat older horses...again, I put a lot of stock in TC races and Travers, especially if horse wins 2/3 in TC...comes down as I seem to keep repeating to personal opinion. Just fyi, I love the Bull but try to leave personal likes/dislikes out of rating.

How did you do this and come up with Zenyatta at 11?

[Cannon Shell]

The Triple Crown races are easily the most popular and publicized races. But they are generally far from the best races.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

How did you do this and come up with Zenyatta at 11?

See my 4:15pm post.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Agree that Holy Bull beat older horses...again, I put a lot of stock in TC races and Travers, especially if horse wins 2/3 in TC...comes down as I seem to keep repeating to personal opinion. Just fyi, I love the Bull but try to leave personal likes/dislikes out of rating.

In that case I find your decision to rank Zenyatta well in front of Affirmed even more peculiar.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by miraja2

In that case I find your decision to rank Zenyatta well in front of Affirmed even more peculiar.

I knew that would bring a lot of criticism, again nationwide closers win at about 20% of races entered, that compared to much higher rates for front runners and stalkers, imo only a horse of exceptional quality could complile a record like Zenyatta's running as a dead closer. We can debate quality etc forever...it's a decision I feel comfortable with and so....

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I knew that would bring a lot of criticism, again nationwide closers win at about 20% of races entered, that compared to much higher rates for front runners and stalkers, imo only a horse of exceptional quality could complile a record like Zenyatta's running as a dead closer. We can debate quality etc forever...it's a decision I feel comfortable with and so....

This is really one of the worst arguments that I have ever heard. You treat her style as a handicap when it is simply her style. Her record is what it is because she ran against a bunch of dogs most of the time on tracks that favored her running style. Nationwide stats are not relevant since she was running on unique surfaces 90% of the time.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This is really one of the worst arguments that I have ever heard. You treat her style as a handicap when it is simply her style. Her record is what it is because she ran against a bunch of dogs most of the time on tracks that favored her running style. Nationwide stats are not relevant since she was running on unique surfaces 90% of the time.

May be the worst argument you ever heard but it's my point, you disagree so I see no value in further debate.

[randallscott35]

As long as you feel "comfortable" Pete with having a pisspoor list, that's all that matters.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

As long as you feel "comfortable" Pete with having a pisspoor list, that's all that matters.

Pete?? John!