Zenyatta Has Earned Horse of the Year

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Zenyatta fans want to talk about how "historic" her quest was (which I understand), but goodness forbid if others want to talk about Zenyatta and "racing history."

Since you are so into history, can you please name for me those performances, since Lady's Secret, by an older female on dirt against males that were superior to Zenyatta's Breeders' Cup Classic?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Since you are so into history, can you please name for me those performances, since Lady's Secret, by an older female on dirt against males that were superior to Zenyatta's Breeders' Cup Classic?

Jolypha.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Jolypha.

Oops. It was supposed to be an older female. Jolypha was a 3yo filly going against older males.

And everyone knows that 3yo fillies are much more advanced than 4 or 5 or 6 year old fillies/mares!

At least according to ass handicapper.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Jolypha.

she sure franked that form the next season when she kept running into a great horse in Flawlessly.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

she sure franked that form the next season when she kept running into a great horse in Flawlessly.

What do you mean by 'franked'?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

she sure franked that form the next season when she kept running into a great horse in Flawlessly.

Isn't comparing turf races and dirt races like comparing apples to oranges?

The consistency on this thread is pathetic.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Isn't comparing turf races and dirt races like comparing apples to oranges?

The consistency on this thread is pathetic.

I think her suck up third was mostly likely a total illusion, certainly I thought Pleasant Tap was running a very weak second to a dominant winner that day.

I think Jolypha was better on turf but if you think its dirt thats fine, I have no way to say it was not.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I think her suck up third was mostly likely a total illusion, certainly I thought Pleasant Tap was running a very weak second to a dominant winner that day.

I think Jolypha was better on turf but if you think its dirt thats fine, I have no way to say it was not.

What do you mean by "suck up"?

A rapid early pace that led to a meltdown with a bunch of closers coming to pick up all the pieces?

Actually, Jolypha was positioned in front of both AP Indy and Pleasant Tap early in the race--only 3 lengths off a :45+ half, but had to alter course to the inside of Sultry Song at the 3/8s, allowing the other two to move past her approaching the stretch, yet she had enough turn of foot to split horses and get back in front of Pleasant Tap midstretch, only to hang late.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

What do you mean by "suck up"?

A rapid early pace that led to a meltdown with a bunch of closers coming to pick up all the pieces?

Actually, Jolypha was positioned in front of both AP Indy and Pleasant Tap early in the race--only 3 lengths off a :45+ half, but had to alter course to the inside of Sultry Song at the 3/8s, allowing the other two to move past her approaching the stretch, yet she had enough turn of foot to split horses and get back in front of Pleasant Tap midstretch, only to hang late.

That's the very definition for the term "suck up third"

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Those types of races have been produced by three-year-old fillies, though.

In my pillory-free zone, I'm not sure I would put any performance by a 3YO filly since Lady's Secret in that category, since they were primarily in races restricted to 3YOs. I also can't think of a performance by a 3YO filly against older males in the relevant time frame that is superior to Zenyatta's Breeders' Cup Classic.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

In my pillory-free zone, I'm not sure I would put any performance by a 3YO filly since Lady's Secret in that category, since they were primarily in races restricted to 3YOs. I also can't think of a performance by a 3YO filly against older males in the relevant time frame that is superior to Zenyatta's Breeders' Cup Classic.

I can definatly think of one. A winning effort to boot.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

In my pillory-free zone, I'm not sure I would put any performance by a 3YO filly since Lady's Secret in that category, since they were primarily in races restricted to 3YOs. I also can't think of a performance by a 3YO filly against older males in the relevant time frame that is superior to Zenyatta's Breeders' Cup Classic.

Zenyatta's recent BC Classic try is right up there with Jolypha's '92 BC Classic effort and Island Fashion's '04 Big Cap.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Zenyatta's recent BC Classic try is right up there with Jolypha's '92 BC Classic effort and Island Fashion's '04 Big Cap.

Jolypha ran well in a pretty good edition of the BC Classic.

The 2004 Big Cap was a very weak edition of that race, after the top SoCal horses (Pleasantly Perfect and Medaglia D'Oro) skipped the race and went to Dubai for the World Cup. In a better edition of the race the following year (Rock Hard Ten, Congrats, Saint Liam), Island Fashion finished 9th at 21-1.

[Cannon Shell]

Serena's Songs 3rd in the 96 Islen to Smart Strike under Donna Barton. That might have been a better effort than her 2nd by a neck in the Whitney.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Serena's Songs 3rd in the 96 Islen to Smart Strike under Donna Barton. That might have been a better effort than her 2nd by a neck in the Whitney.

She ran great in the Whitney from an outside post, but nobody's going to confuse that edition, won by Mahogany Hall (in which Peaks and Valleys and L'Carriere were the two favorites), as one of the better Whitneys of recent times.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

She ran great in the Whitney from an outside post, but nobody's going to confuse that edition, won by Mahogany Hall (in which Peaks and Valleys and L'Carriere were the two favorites), as one of the better Whitneys of recent times.

LOL. True!

The thing is that the last few years the older horse division in this country has been so weak that fillies should take shots. Just as Lukas took shots with SS in relatively weak editions of the whitney and Islin. I couldn't blame trainers for passing up races against Cigar, Holy Bull. Skip Away, Formal Gold, etc.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Jolypha ran well in a pretty good edition of the BC Classic.

The 2004 Big Cap was a very weak edition of that race, after the top SoCal horses (Pleasantly Perfect and Medaglia D'Oro) skipped the race and went to Dubai for the World Cup. In a better edition of the race the following year (Rock Hard Ten, Congrats, Saint Liam), Island Fashion finished 9th at 21-1.

You mention Congrats but not Southern Image?

How objective.

I'm sure Island Fashion was in the same multiple grade 1 winning form in '05 as she was at the beginning of '04.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

You mention Congrats but not Southern Image?

How objective.

I'm sure Island Fashion was in the same multiple grade 1 winning form in '05 as she was at the beginning of '04.

Huh? Southern Image wasn't in the 2005 Big Cap.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Huh? Southern Image wasn't in the 2005 Big Cap.

I know. He won the '04 Big Cap with Island Fashion hounding him all the way to the wire.

I just found it interesting that you said the '04 edition was weak without mentioning him, yet saw fit to cite Congrats as a means of bolstering the quality of the '05 version.

[herkhorse]

I think she has earned it, just on the "Mt. Splashmore" factor of her fans if nothing else.