Crist: The great distaffers..

[slotdirt]

The thing is, there were no synthetics back then, so there wasn't the need to go east/west vice/versa to prove one's mettle. I can understand folks wanting Personal Ensign to run in the West, but when the horse was undefeated, beat males in the Whitney, and had taken on all comers in her division on dirt, I guess I just don't get the comparison to Zenyatta's schedule.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

The thing is, there were no synthetics back then, so there wasn't the need to go east/west vice/versa to prove one's mettle. I can understand folks wanting Personal Ensign to run in the West, but when the horse was undefeated, beat males in the Whitney, and had taken on all comers in her division on dirt, I guess I just don't get the comparison to Zenyatta's schedule.

You don't get the comparison because you aren't trying to grasp at straws in order to defend a hopeless position.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

The thing is, there were no synthetics back then, so there wasn't the need to go east/west vice/versa to prove one's mettle. I can understand folks wanting Personal Ensign to run in the West, but when the horse was undefeated, beat males in the Whitney, and had taken on all comers in her division on dirt, I guess I just don't get the comparison to Zenyatta's schedule.

So again, people are upset about the surface, which I get. I don't by the argument that she can't run on dirt, she would be better on dirt, certainly faster in general (there are no fast synthetic horses according to the numbers, just an occasional fast race). Just maybe not undefeated.

Zenyatta after the Classic will have run three times on dirt, I think it will be pretty obvious she has a lot of ability on multiple surfaces and will provide enough to judge.

[Thunder Gulch]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

So again, people are upset about the surface, which I get. I don't by the argument that she can't run on dirt, she would be better on dirt, certainly faster in general (there are no fast synthetic horses according to the numbers, just an occasional fast race). Just maybe not undefeated.

Zenyatta after the Classic will have run three times on dirt, I think it will be pretty obvious she has a lot of ability on multiple surfaces and will provide enough to judge.

To me that's the whole argument about her placing in history. There is no history to compare with because synthetics are so new to the US racing scene. The synthetics played into her liking and her style, and distorted the view of what took place in the BC Classic, but I believe Zen is a great horse who can run on dirt. I don't at all believe she would be undefeated if she ran 14 times on dirt against good fields, and to be considered the greatest in the US you need to have made your mark there.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

So again, people are upset about the surface, which I get. I don't by the argument that she can't run on dirt, she would be better on dirt, certainly faster in general (there are no fast synthetic horses according to the numbers, just an occasional fast race). Just maybe not undefeated.

Zenyatta after the Classic will have run three times on dirt, I think it will be pretty obvious she has a lot of ability on multiple surfaces and will provide enough to judge.

The dirt/synthetic issue is obviously important for some in this discussion (not me). Also, I don't believe that it is fair to penalize Zenyatta for the fact that the Breeders' Cup was held in SoCal the last two years. And recognizing that equine athletes can have off days, her 17-for-17 record is a remarkable achievement.

That all being said, at this point in time, the issue for me isn't about shipping her out of town. While I'd love to see Zenyatta come to Saratoga for a race like the Ruffian or Whitney, I doubt that will happen. What I don't get is that her connections said that they were going to do things differently in 2010, and yet they haven't done anything in 2010 that they already hadn't done in either 2008 or 2009. The question is why, when Zenyatta has already beaten the boys at 10F, if she is not going to leave the West Coast, is she not contesting a race like the Hollywood Gold Cup or the Pacific Classic? Their mare having won the Breeders' Cup Classic and then having contended that she should have been crowned HOY on at least one occassion, are we really to believe that there is a male horse on the West Coast against whom the Mosses are afraid of racing?

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

The dirt/synthetic issue is obviously important for some in this discussion (not me). Also, I don't believe that it is fair to penalize Zenyatta for the fact that the Breeders' Cup was held in SoCal the last two years. And recognizing that equine athletes can have off days, her 17-for-17 record is a remarkable achievement.

That all being said, at this point in time, the issue for me isn't about shipping her out of town. While I'd love to see Zenyatta come to Saratoga for a race like the Ruffian or Whitney, I doubt that will happen. What I don't get is that her connections said that they were going to do things differently in 2010, and yet they haven't done anything in 2010 that they already hadn't done in either 2008 or 2009. The question is why, when Zenyatta has already beaten the boys at 10F, if she is not going to leave the West Coast, is she not contesting a race like the Hollywood Gold Cup or the Pacific Classic? Their mare having won the Breeders' Cup Classic and then having contended that she should have been crowned HOY on at least one occassion, are we really to believe that there is a male horse on the West Coast against whom the Mosses are afraid of racing?

I completely agree with what you said, if it was MY horse

1. at 4 her campaign was fine
2. at 5 my only real complaint was she should have run in the HGC or PC before the classic
3. at 6, while she is not as good and the early season goal of beating RA was foiled at no fault of their own a good summer goal would have been the HGC, PC. Shipping to win the Ogden Phipps or Beldame or something is silly, she would face a field similar to the AB.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

What I don't get is that her connections said that they were going to do things differently in 2010, and yet they haven't done anything in 2010 that they already hadn't done in either 2008 or 2009. The question is why, when Zenyatta has already beaten the boys at 10F, if she is not going to leave the West Coast, is she not contesting a race like the Hollywood Gold Cup or the Pacific Classic? Their mare having won the Breeders' Cup Classic and then having contended that she should have been crowned HOY on at least one occassion, are we really to believe that there is a male horse on the West Coast against whom the Mosses are afraid of racing?

There is nothing to get. They were full of shid when they said they would do things differently. They've always been full of it when talking about this mare.

It's just how they roll.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

There is nothing to get. They were full of shid when they said they would do things differently. They've always been full of it when talking about this mare.

It's just how they roll.

never trust people in hollywood or in racing.....and if you got both......run