4/4 (SA): Santa Anita Derby (G1); Arcadia, Potrero Grnade, Providencia (G2's)

[Sightseek]

I think the Wood has one, possibly two, horses that are better than these, but this is definitely the more interesting race.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I think the Wood has one, possibly two, horses that are better than these, but this is definitely the more interesting race.

You think IWR is better than POTN?

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

You think IWR is better than POTN?

Yup.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

You think IWR is better than POTN?

Who wouldn't?

NT

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Who wouldn't?

NT

Perhaps those that have seen Pioneer beat him twice. Maybe? I don't know.

[brockguy]

Oui Say Oui will be a very good horse this year - anyone know owner / trainer..

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by brockguy

Oui Say Oui will be a very good horse this year - anyone know owner / trainer..

I keep hearing that. (I think Sadler is her trainer...)

* * *

No one can beat The Pamplemousse.

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by brockguy

Oui Say Oui will be a very good horse this year - anyone know owner / trainer..

Oh, she will be

IEAH stable own her now, I think they saw the potential, too.

I think she'll make a mockery of this Gr2

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Perhaps those that have seen Pioneer beat him twice. Maybe? I don't know.

Sure, Pioneer is much better on synthetics. Too bad the Derby's on dirt.

NT

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

* regarding the surface.

NT

Before IWR had run on the dirt, we didn't know if either of them would or wouldn't like it. IWR has now shown that he does but Pioneer hasn't shown that he doesn't. I don't jump to the automatic conclusion that IWR improves more on dirt than Pioneer does. If they both improve equally, then that would make Pioneer probably still better than IWR. What if Pioneer likes it more than IWR does?

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Before IWR had run on the dirt, we didn't know if either of them would or wouldn't like it. IWR has now shown that he does but Pioneer hasn't shown that he doesn't. I don't jump to the automatic conclusion that IWR improves more on dirt than Pioneer does. If they both improve equally, then that would make Pioneer probably still better than IWR. What if Pioneer likes it more than IWR does?

I'm operating under the assumption that he will not. That's based on Bill Mott's assessment that he was not a dirt horse by running him on turf or synthetics in three races last year. He has specialized in turf-like races where the last move wins.

I also thought Pioneer's trip in the Bob Lewis was better and you could really see I Want Revenge struggling with the track in the stretch.

Of course, it remains to be seen if A) I Want Revenge is just a one-hit wonder who benefited from a perfect trip in the Gotham or B) POTN will also move up on the dirt and prove that the California crop was simply unable to post respectable figures because of the synthetics.

I will gamble that POTN is a turf horse because it seems a safe bet that he's going to be overbet in the Derby relative to his overall ability.

NT

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Sure, Pioneer is much better on synthetics. Too bad the Derby's on dirt.

NT

I don't agree with any of this. First, I wouldn't even say that Pioneer is much better on synthetics. The two races were pretty close. Second, until anyone has proof that IWR likes dirt more than Pioneer, at this point, it's still conjecture and I would go with a bird in the hand (Pioneer's two wins) over the rest.

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I would go with a bird in the hand (Pioneer's two wins) over the rest.

IMO, the bird in the hand would be a graded win on the dirt.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Perhaps those that have seen Pioneer beat him twice. Maybe? I don't know.

What about the fact that Terrain has finished ahead of Pioneer of the Nile both times when they have met on a synthetic track?

Does that make Terrain a better synthetic horse than POTN?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

What about the fact that Terrain has finished ahead of Pioneer of the Nile both times when they have met on a synthetic track?

Does that make Terrain a better synthetic horse than POTN?

No, but it does make you a smart ass for making such an obviously flawed comparison.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Not only has Terrain beaten POTN in both of their synthetic track meetings - but the last time he crossed the wire on top was in a small stake at Mountaineer Park!

The true 'great race place.'

[2 Dollar Bill]

Not sure if its me...or..... Has anyone noticed that POTN... ( since Dec. 07, 2008) .. has ""posted"" workouts of 6f & 5f....and all of a sudden.... before this race is a 4f workout...?