Stardom Bound

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Danzig

but...

two things may work against her. one, you never want a horse going to the derby that is still learning new things-dirt would be a huge change for her, she's never touched it on the track.
the second thing-there are colts out there who already relish the dirt surface, and will be in their element.

then there's one thing many forget. fillies typically mature faster than colts; that's why so many two year old fillies fool people into thinking they can win the derby, because they most likely could beat their male counterparts at that age.
but a lot changes between january and may, she'll find a far more level playing field by then.
i think stardom bound is a good horse, but i don't find her to be a particularly special one.

if the concession is that she couldn't beat males in cali, on her surface, i don't see how she can win vs a bigger field on a foreign surface.

All of what you say is very valid. Ideally, you'd love to have every question answered beforehand and have the distance be the only one left. But we won't get that with her or many of the other California based horses. So of course the dirt will be a question but I just don't see any reason to believe that she won't handle it so instead of assuming she won't, I'm basing my assumption on the fact that she will. If she will, I see no other disadvantages for her. The fact that there are colts that will relish is it not as important to me. They may like it more but not have the talent to beat her. Like Golden Doc A might relish the synthetic more than Indian Blessing does but she didn't have a big her talent disadvantage was bigger than her track advantage. So then the question becomes whether or not you think that, all else being equal, she has the talent. I think she does. Your point about the fillies maturing faster is not necessarily in play here. It could be but there's no evidence to say that it's the truth here. As it is, she has every right to continue to develop as the colts do. Until I see where I think they've passed her by, I have to believe that she still has the advantage that she had. The last thing is that I don't think the concession is that she can't be males here. At this point, I'd make her the clear favorite for the SA Derby.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

All of what you say is very valid. Ideally, you'd love to have every question answered beforehand and have the distance be the only one left. But we won't get that with her or many of the other California based horses. So of course the dirt will be a question but I just don't see any reason to believe that she won't handle it so instead of assuming she won't, I'm basing my assumption on the fact that she will. If she will, I see no other disadvantages for her. The fact that there are colts that will relish is it not as important to me. They may like it more but not have the talent to beat her. Like Golden Doc A might relish the synthetic more than Indian Blessing does but she didn't have a big her talent disadvantage was bigger than her track advantage. So then the question becomes whether or not you think that, all else being equal, she has the talent. I think she does. Your point about the fillies maturing faster is not necessarily in play here. It could be but there's no evidence to say that it's the truth here. As it is, she has every right to continue to develop as the colts do. Until I see where I think they've passed her by, I have to believe that she still has the advantage that she had. The last thing is that I don't think the concession is that she can't be males here. At this point, I'd make her the clear favorite for the SA Derby.

horses can only mature to a point i would think-perhaps she reached that point earlier, and her peers are still in progress? it's not inconceivable. some mentioned past fillies who failed to go on at three, and i think that early maturity was the explanation in all of them. perhaps in her case it may turn out differently..
at any rate, it's fun watching it all unfold...i'm certainly not against her doing well; but i'm also of the opinion that she's not any better than any of the other top fillies over the past few years. she might be a wow-er, but i just don't think she's a WOW-er.

[packerbacker7964]

I remember Ex. Lady and fews years back. She was a great runner. Serna's Song and Silverbulletday Were also great fillies who looked like they were going to hit the board. I hate to bring it up but the last Filly who tried to keep up with the boys in the Derby ran herself to DEATH. I still hate that Larry Jones let the media and the owners talk him into doing something he didn't want to do with her. R.I.P. Girl we miss you!!!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by packerbacker7964

I remember Ex. Lady and fews years back. She was a great runner. Serna's Song and Silverbulletday Were also great fillies who looked like they were going to hit the board. I hate to bring it up but the last Filly who tried to keep up with the boys in the Derby ran herself to DEATH. I still hate that Larry Jones let the media and the owners talk him into doing something he didn't want to do with her. R.I.P. Girl we miss you!!!

disagree completely with this statement. you're way off. matter of fact, she stumbled when changing leads in the gallop out-which is one of the more common things you hear about a horse breaking down, that they were in the process of changing leads-pine island is another. do you think pine island was in over her head that day?? i doubt it.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by packerbacker7964

I remember Ex. Lady and fews years back. She was a great runner. Serna's Song and Silverbulletday Were also great fillies who looked like they were going to hit the board. I hate to bring it up but the last Filly who tried to keep up with the boys in the Derby ran herself to DEATH. I still hate that Larry Jones let the media and the owners talk him into doing something he didn't want to do with her. R.I.P. Girl we miss you!!!

"ran herself to death" -- was that was actually happened? I know they were doing an autopsy but I guess I missed where the cause of death ended up being "tried to keep up with the boys and ran herself to death".

Probably a discussion for another time.

Eric

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by packerbacker7964

I remember Ex. Lady and fews years back. She was a great runner. Serna's Song and Silverbulletday Were also great fillies who looked like they were going to hit the board. I hate to bring it up but the last Filly who tried to keep up with the boys in the Derby ran herself to DEATH. I still hate that Larry Jones let the media and the owners talk him into doing something he didn't want to do with her. R.I.P. Girl we miss you!!!

I owe you a debt of thanks. I have always wondered what it was that broke down Go for Wand. Same with Flanders. Now I know. It was running against the boys because that's the only way that fillies can get hurt.

If running against boys kills fillies, why did the same Serena's Song that you mentioned win the Jim Beam and the Haskell? Why did Winning Colors and Genuine Risk win the Derby? Why did Rags to Riches win the Belmont? Whey did Lady's Secret and Personal Ensign win the Whitney? Why did Zarkava win the Arc? Why have Goldikova, Miesque, Royal Heroine, and Ridgewood Pearl all won the BC Mile? Why have Pebbles and Miss Alleged won the BC Turf?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I owe you a debt of thanks. I have always wondered what it was that broke down Go for Wand. Same with Flanders. Now I know. It was running against the boys because that's the only way that fillies can get hurt.

If running against boys kills fillies, why did the same Serena's Song that you mentioned win the Jim Beam and the Haskell? Why did Winning Colors and Genuine Risk win the Derby? Why did Rags to Riches win the Belmont? Whey did Lady's Secret and Personal Ensign win the Whitney? Why did Zarkava win the Arc? Why have Goldikova, Miesque, Royal Heroine, and Ridgewood Pearl all won the BC Mile? Why have Pebbles and Miss Alleged won the BC Turf?

Good post man.

However, your post reminds me of that old Bronski Beat tune "Tell Me Why".

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I owe you a debt of thanks. I have always wondered what it was that broke down Go for Wand. Same with Flanders. Now I know. It was running against the boys because that's the only way that fillies can get hurt.

If running against boys kills fillies, why did the same Serena's Song that you mentioned win the Jim Beam and the Haskell? Why did Winning Colors and Genuine Risk win the Derby? Why did Rags to Riches win the Belmont? Whey did Lady's Secret and Personal Ensign win the Whitney? Why did Zarkava win the Arc? Why have Goldikova, Miesque, Royal Heroine, and Ridgewood Pearl all won the BC Mile? Why have Pebbles and Miss Alleged won the BC Turf?

Now now, don't forget Ouija Board, Sunline, and Makybe Diva. If anybody could kick some male arse, it's the Diva.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Now now, don't forget Ouija Board, Sunline, and Makybe Diva. If anybody could kick some male arse, it's the Diva.

Oh, I could have gone on and on but there's only so much time in the day.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Oh, I could have gone on and on but there's only so much time in the day.

Understood.

I figure Stardom Bound's different from Halfbridled and Sweet Catomine. I think she's got something there that could carry through if she stays healthy. I think she'll only get better if that's possible. Bring on the boys!

[Indian Charlie]

Evita Argentina takes on the boys in that 3yo stakes coming up at SA next week!

They should probably have her obit written beforehand.