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#61
09-27-2012, 08:21 AM
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don't run out of ammo. 
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#62
09-27-2012, 08:22 AM
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don't run out of ammo.
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#63
09-27-2012, 03:19 PM
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Oooh it's like finding little hidden gems!
This is what I said... A couple of things... first off I'm curious if #6 would have happened without #12. I don't think so. Do you? Don't you? Quote:
Please don't put words in my mouth.
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#64
09-27-2012, 03:24 PM
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Its called "obamanomics". blame the guy before you eventhough you continued to govern the EXACT same way as the guy before you.
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#65
09-27-2012, 06:00 PM
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The right kind of math is welcome, and you trying to deny that the debt Bush left us is not still costing us daily is beyond absurd. Bush didn't wipe out his debt the day he left office, did he? No matter who was president, the Bush debt present on 1/20/2008 continues until about 2020.
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"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts
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#66
09-27-2012, 06:05 PM
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That is, that's the answer of people who actually care to be discerning and serious and truthful about the causes of our debt, that is. Quote:
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"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts
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#67
09-27-2012, 06:56 PM
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Naw, you're wrong on the "simple mathematics" part, you can't do that - your assumption of how that works is wrong. First, should mention that we are both using deficit and debt interchangeably, and we are both wrong to do that - the deficit is the difference between what we take and in and what we spend annually, then the accumulation of that (which Obama has decreased a bit, his federal spending is indeed the lowest since Reagan); and the debt is what we owe. But we are talking about the same thing - what the country owes in total, right? Back to the "simple assumption" thing, your math is way off, you are trying to simplistically compare entirely different things. The debt was 10.6 trillion at end of Bush, is now 16 trillion. Yes, it is. 5.6 trillion of that was added during the past 4 years. Yes, it was. BTW - if Bushes policies only cost us a little over $5 trillion, why was the debt 10.6 trillion at the end of his term? If you can answer that, you'll know why you can't blame Obama for 100% of the debt that has added on during his term. BUT - to get back, the question is where did that 5.6 trillion come from? You say it is all due to Obama. No, it is not. First, much of that is continued ongoing costs from Bush unpaid-for wars, unpaid-for drug giveaway, and the ongoing cost of Bush massively cutting our income via the tax cuts, while continuing to spend the same amount of money. And yes, when we loan ourselves money, there is tremendous debt service on that, and it compounds exponentially. So even though Bush left office 1/20/2008, the cost of his policies, the debt we pay on that, continues to rise - the Iran war got more expensive over the past 10 years, Afghanistan, etc (and yes, Obama gets credit for the cost of the surge, etc) But look again at the orange-red-blue Debt Chart graph in the post above - see the dates? Obama's policy costs do not even kick in until his first budget in 2009, the cost of that coming afterwards - see all the rise in Bush polices from 2008 to 2009-2010? Obama isn't responsible for that portion of the debt rising even though his term started - and a lot of that old stuff is ongoing even past Obama's term (if it ends in November) and it's still Bush's stuff, left for the next president. Obama's policies over the past cost 1.4 Trillion, but much of that was paid for (the ACA is virtually "deficit neutral" as scored by CBO), some of course was not - so you can't simply add cost of policies together. to get debt. So, to attribute the portion of our debt that is due to Obama, due to his policies, you must be able to list the portion of Obama policies (and that includes a portion of the cost of expansion of Bush tax cuts, of course - but NOT all of that, of course) and (Obama's cost of surge in Afghanistan). Right? We should be able to list the exact Obama policies (all together of which cost $1.4 trillion until 2017) that were put on a charge card, and not self-funded, that will cost us increased debt service in the last two years of his term and ongoing until it's paid for. And that is clearly NOT $5.7 trillion. Obama has only "cost" us $1.4 trillion, that's absurd, and much of Obama's costs haven't even kicked in yet (and the vast majority are paid for, not put on a charge card) To attribute that $5.7 trillion all to Obama is simple, factually, obviously false and simplistic. Quote:
The charts are from figures supplied by the well-respected and non-partisan Congressional Budget office, no, they are not in any way whatsoever "phoney", that's an absurd charge. Here's fact on what each of the last two presidents policies have cost - some was paid for, much for Bush, noticeably and regrettably, was NOT. 
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"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts
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#68
09-27-2012, 10:44 PM
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#69
09-28-2012, 12:46 PM
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The part of the deficit that is from Bush policies, is his; the part that is Obama's (not $5.7 trillion) is his; the part from before both men is neither of theirs. Again - the debt when Bush left was nearly twice the actual cost of his policies - WHY was that? Same reason Obama hasn't been responsible for "raising the debt by $5.7 trillion" Every president inherits ongoing debt from the previous president. You can't blame a president for policies and debt that is hanging around, due to the guy before him. That's beyond absurd, but it's exactly what the superficial and shallow are doing with the false attempt to blame Obama for debt not from his policies. And the non-questioning keep repeating it. It's wrong.
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"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts
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#70
09-28-2012, 01:01 PM
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He ran on a platform in 2008 that was highlighted by a draw down of military influence globally and a decrease in defense spending. He said that would bring the budgets "back in line". He has not only not done this, but on top of everything else, ignored the constitution by deciding to go to war in Libya by himself, and increasing defense spending year after year. 5 Trillion in 3 years is on him and there is no way you are going to spin it to your deluded beliefs.
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#71
09-28-2012, 01:13 PM
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And I did not even say "it's all Bush's fault". Quote:
"Beliefs" have zero to do with it. The statement that Obama's policies alone are responsible for 100% of all USA debt service over the past 3-4 years, that Obama's policies alone are responsible for the debt rising $5.7 trillion in the past 3-4 years, is demonstrably false and simply stupid. It would be as stupid as saying Bush is responsible for 100% of the debt he inherited and was still paying off 2 years into his presidency from previous administrations. Yes, Joey - Rush and Hannity and The Blaze and Erick Erickson and lying to you that 100% of the current debt in this country is due to Obama. It doesn't pass your own "simple math test" Stop believing their lie. THINK FOR YOURSELF There is no way you can continue to spin this with your deluded beliefs.
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"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts
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#72
09-28-2012, 01:25 PM
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Plus the debt blame is pointless. Both parties share the burden and it is true that most of the debt is beyond Obama's control and the debt he did accumulate is a pittance compared to money wasted by former administrations.
Solyndra is a mere drop in the bucket. One thing that he is handling extremely well is Iran and he seems to understand the timeline and our intelligence agencies aren't dropping the ball. What's happening is Netanyahu needs conflict to remain in power. Obama sees it for what it is instead of being a Zionist lapdog. Quite relieving, actually.
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#73
09-28-2012, 01:28 PM
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"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts
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#74
09-28-2012, 01:48 PM
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Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. Abraham Lincoln
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#75
09-28-2012, 02:13 PM
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This warms my heart...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy5s8GypSKI sanctions will make the people of Iran revolt.
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#76
09-28-2012, 09:48 PM
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factcheck, on obama and his 'deficit dodge'.
http://factcheck.org/2012/09/obamas-deficit-dodge/ some excerpts: 'President Obama is falsely claiming that his administration’s policies are responsible for “about 10 percent” of the deficits “over the last four years.” The cumulative deficit during that time is nearly $5.2 trillion. Obama signed two bills — the 2009 stimulus and the 2010 tax cut — that alone cost $1.6 trillion during that time, or nearly a third of the cumulative four-year deficit Obama’s response leaves the false impression that President George W. Bush and the 2008 recession are responsible for a whopping 90 percent of the deficits in the last four years. It’s true that Obama “inherited the biggest deficit in our history,” as he said on CBS. By the time Obama took office in January 2009, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office had already estimated that increased spending and decreased revenues would result in a $1.2 trillion deficit for fiscal year 2009, which began Oct. 1, 2008. In a detailed analysis of fiscal year 2009, we found that Obama was responsible for adding at most $203 billion to the deficit, which in the end topped $1.4 trillion that year. But that was just the first of four years of trillion-plus deficits. The last three budgets fall squarely under Obama. And, during that time, the federal government ran up deficits of $1.3 trillion in 2010, $1.3 trillion in 2011, and about $1.2 trillion in the fiscal year that ends Sept. 30 — for a total of nearly $5.2 trillion in deficit spending.' ---------oh, and the 'unfunded bush war'??: 'The Obama administration was authorized to spend $160 billion in 2010 (Table 1-4, “Defense-war related”) and $159 billion in 2011 (Table 4, “Overseas contingency operations”) on the two wars — each more than the $140 billion that was authorized in 2009, which was Bush’s last budget. Obama significantly increased troop levels in Afghanistan in both years. CBO says budget authority for the Afghanistan war jumped from $38 billion in 2009 to $87 billion in 2010 and $98 billion in 2011. Obama requested $115 billion for both wars in 2012. The cost from 2010 to 2012 is more than $400 billion, excluding interest. But Obama bears more responsibility than he is willing to accept, and misrepresents the Treasury analysis to minimize his responsibility.'
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Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. Abraham Lincoln
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#77
09-28-2012, 09:53 PM
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and this nugget:
Josh Gordon, policy director of the Concord Coalition, a nonpartisan group that advocates for “responsible fiscal policy,” notes the president wants to exclude spending on continuing Bush-era tax and war policies. “The problem is those pieces of legislation had his signatures,” he added. CBO and the nonpartisan Pew Fiscal Analysis Initiative each did their own postmortem analyses of what happened from 2002 to 2011. Without apportioning blame, both reports found the accumulation of legislation changes — tax cuts, war spending and stimulus measures under both presidents — was the “main driver,” as Pew put it. -------obama skewing facts, by lumping bush policies he has continued into bushes area of responsibility! no, he keeps them going, they are his as well. but nice try.
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Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. Abraham Lincoln
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#78
09-29-2012, 12:43 PM
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Don't confuse the deficit with the debt
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"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts
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