Graded Stakes Committee Makes Changes

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

What is the justification for making the BC Juvie Fillies Turf a Grade 1 ( other than allowing them to justify keeping it's biggest prep, the Alcibiades, as a Grade 1 )?

How is the Spinster still a Grade 1?

probably trying to draw euros. no other justification for it comes to mind. about half of the bc races shouldn't be graded at all.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Danzig

probably trying to draw euros. no other justification for it comes to mind. about half of the bc races shouldn't be graded at all.

Races can't be Graded in an attempt to attract horses.

[rgustafson]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Isn't the Turf Sprint pretty much along the same lines, a joke?

There has been such a large proliferation of this type of race in recent years, especially at some major venues (NYRA tracks in particular) that eventually some halfway decent horses find their way into these races. On the other hand, 1 3/4 miles on the dirt......um. not so much.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by rgustafson

There has been such a large proliferation of this type of race in recent years, especially at some major venues (NYRA tracks in particular) that eventually some halfway decent horses find their way into these races. On the other hand, 1 3/4 miles on the dirt......um. not so much.

So " halfway decent horses " make up Grade 1 races now?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

So " halfway decent horses " make up Grade 1 races now?

Only the better Grade 1's

[Cannon Shell]

The graded stakes system is not only fairly useless in its present state but is harmful to the sport of horse racing by creating undeserved credentials for too many horses who use the graded blacktype as a justification to stop racing. A complete revamp of the system is badly needed but will never happen because the TOBA is a farce of an organization. They desperately fight against lasix (despite the fact that taking it away will lead to the devaluation of bloodstock accross the board) yet they adhere to this bloated system and wont drastically cut the number of graded events because they fear the effects it will have on the value of bloodstock (fewer graded blacktype horses, fewer credentialed mares, etc)

Assigning a "grade" to a race without knowing who is running in it is moronic. Assigning some sort of performance rates to stakes races after the season has concluded would not only be more accurate but would lead to increased competition and less ducking for fear of a year end downgrade. Had Zenyatta's connections had to choose between staying in CA and racing in races which would clearly be graded poorly due to the weak competition or racing in better races, well what do you think they might have done? Obviously classic races and certsin designated races could have some sort of special designation but far too many graded races are nothing more than allowance level races but for one or two horses.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Races can't be Graded in an attempt to attract horses.

it just seems that this is what they're attempting to do. i know most bc races were grade 1 right from the start. i don't know what else can explain it.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The graded stakes system is not only fairly useless in its present state but is harmful to the sport of horse racing by creating undeserved credentials for too many horses who use the graded blacktype as a justification to stop racing. A complete revamp of the system is badly needed but will never happen because the TOBA is a farce of an organization. They desperately fight against lasix (despite the fact that taking it away will lead to the devaluation of bloodstock accross the board) yet they adhere to this bloated system and wont drastically cut the number of graded events because they fear the effects it will have on the value of bloodstock (fewer graded blacktype horses, fewer credentialed mares, etc)

Assigning a "grade" to a race without knowing who is running in it is moronic. Assigning some sort of performance rates to stakes races after the season has concluded would not only be more accurate but would lead to increased competition and less ducking for fear of a year end downgrade. Had Zenyatta's connections had to choose between staying in CA and racing in races which would clearly be graded poorly due to the weak competition or racing in better races, well what do you think they might have done? Obviously classic races and certsin designated races could have some sort of special designation but far too many graded races are nothing more than allowance level races but for one or two horses.

[ateamstupid]

Like most of the changes. @ the Hopeful being downgraded though.

[Patrick333]

Originally Posted by 3kings

Good news for Parx.

It sure is. Good to see the Smarty Jones get graded.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Linny

In fact, I tend to think that the Euro's have it right in that only their major year end "destination" races for 2yo's have G1 status.

France and Ireland hold their first Group 1 events for juveniles in August/September just as the US does.

Only Britain follows the pattern you describe, but inexplicably, it held its first two, the Dewhurst (7f) and Middle Park (6f), on the same day at the same racecourse this year. That cannot make any long term sense.

If the Juvenile Turf races are Grade 1 in order to attract top class Euro participation, then they have done poorly. For the most part, Coolmore and the like have sent nothing over but second string horses to take chunks of the $1 million purses back home. Not a single Group 1 winner has faced the starter in the 9 total runnings. I think only Pounced (who never started again) and Together were even placed in a Group 1 prior to the BC. And Lillie Langtry (injured in the 2009 running) might be the only horse to win a European Group 1 race in subsequent seasons.

That said, last year's renewal of the Juvenile Turf at the very least served as a good preview of the following year's crop of American turf 3yos. Despite Pluck's remarkable double misfire for any semblance of a campaign, and Soldat's modestly successful Derby trail on dirt, last year's race featured Willcox Inn, Banned, Humble And Hungry, and Air Support. Collectively, those 4 took down 9 stakes and placed in 8 others, the vast majority being graded stakes. Grade 2 status sounds about right.

[rgustafson]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

So " halfway decent horses " make up Grade 1 races now?

Yes, but only if they have been run for four consecutive years and only if they are part of the Breeders Cup program because after all this is racing's "Championship Day(s)."

[King Glorious]

For the most part I agree with Cannon. The one problem I can see with grading races after the fact is you will have many different trainers and tracks claiming their horse or race is the star or marquee and the others are avoiding them. At least by grading them ahead of time, we all know which are supposed to be the biggest races and where the stars are supposed to be.

[outofthebox]

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

General Quarters followed his Bluegrass with a G1 win in the Woodford Reserve at CD on Derby Day 2010.

My bad. How could i forget the retired school teacher winning on Derby Day. Great story!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

For the most part I agree with Cannon. The one problem I can see with grading races after the fact is you will have many different trainers and tracks claiming their horse or race is the star or marquee and the others are avoiding them. At least by grading them ahead of time, we all know which are supposed to be the biggest races and where the stars are supposed to be.

We should already know what races are supposed to be the biggest races and where the "stars" are supposed to be. End of the year evaluation encourages competition as opposed to the system currently in place. Grading of races was supposed to be for breeders to use to determine what black type races were of what class. Of course this was 40 years ago before information was readily available like it is now. The sad thing is that if you bring any of this up to members of the committee or most racetrack execs or breeders they look at you like you are crazy. Again there is zero sentiment to adjust the system because it is putting money in peoples pockts, gives tracks a marketing tool (though I am skeptical about anyone other than serious fans actually being swayed by a grade of a race-I'm sure Parx will not see a big spike in attendance for next years Cottillion) and gives the year end voters something that they can use regardless of how weak certain highly graded races were in a given year.

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

(though I am skeptical about anyone other than serious fans actually being swayed by a grade of a race-I'm sure Parx will not see a big spike in attendance for next years Cottillion)

For what it's worth, which isn't much, I would be surprised if Parx didn't put the PA Derby and Cotillion on the same card now, plus the Turf Amazon and Gallant Bob...they have zero draw for the Cotillion in its current spot on the calendar and seem ready to have a big day when there isn't much else going on...so in that sense, if they run the Cotillion on PA Derby day, there will be a significant spike in attendance. Of course, the spike has everything to do with the race being moved to already a popular day attendance-wise, not because the Cotillion is a G1

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

We should already know what races are supposed to be the biggest races and where the "stars" are supposed to be. End of the year evaluation encourages competition as opposed to the system currently in place. Grading of races was supposed to be for breeders to use to determine what black type races were of what class. Of course this was 40 years ago before information was readily available like it is now. The sad thing is that if you bring any of this up to members of the committee or most racetrack execs or breeders they look at you like you are crazy. Again there is zero sentiment to adjust the system because it is putting money in peoples pockts, gives tracks a marketing tool (though I am skeptical about anyone other than serious fans actually being swayed by a grade of a race-I'm sure Parx will not see a big spike in attendance for next years Cottillion) and gives the year end voters something that they can use regardless of how weak certain highly graded races were in a given year.

The marketing appeal of a grade is virtually non-existent unless you can say you have a card with five G1's. Still debatable though.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Like most of the changes. @ the Hopeful being downgraded though.

I'll Have Another was 6th in the Hopeful last year. Hmm.