NFL Coaching Changes: Who Should, Who Should Go

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

And horseofcourse neglects to mention that free agency and the looser cap rules really opened up in those years and Pittsburgh was left with no money to compete in signing its own free agents let alone adding from other teams.

How old is riverfront stadium anyway?

Riverfront stadium doesnt' exist. IT was demolished.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

I feel any coach they hire will have a tough time making them a yearly NFL Super Bowl contending power or even have the success that Marvin Lewis had. The Pittsburgh Steelers have had 3 coaches in the last 41 years. They are the model to follow. He did work for Mike Brown and for the most part put a competetive team on the field every year he coached.

So no team should ever fire a coach that continually produces mediocrity because the Steelers weren't retarded enough to fire Noll (Super Bowl wins in his 6th and 7th seasons), Cowher (SB appearance in his 4th season) or Tomlin (SB win in his 2nd season). Well reasoned.

He did work for Mike Brown? What the hell does that mean?

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

So no team should ever fire a coach that continually produces mediocrity because the Steelers weren't retarded enough to fire Noll (Super Bowl wins in his 6th and 7th seasons), Cowher (SB appearance in his 4th season) or Tomlin (SB win in his 2nd season). Well reasoned.

He did work for Mike Brown? What the hell does that mean?

2 playoff appearances in 7 years is a bonanza of success in Cincy for Mike Brown after 12 years of zero. One man's mediocrity isn't anothers.

Mike Brown is not highly thought of in Cincinnati as being an acute NFL owner.

Anyone can get fired. I honestly don't care. I just like to defend Marvin Lewis is all. I'm not a giant fan of coaches too much. I'm not sure firing coaches is the be all and end all for a franchise's success. Sometimes it might be better to hang on to them longer than you might think you should.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

2 playoff appearances in 7 years is a bonanza of success in Cincy for Mike Brown after 12 years of zero. One man's mediocrity isn't anothers.

Mike Brown is not highly thought of in Cincinnati as being an acute NFL owner.

Which is why the fans should be entitled to a refund if Lewis comes back. They've had mediocrity and I'm sure they realize it isn't much of an improvement over sucking.

[dalakhani]

Horseofcouse,

I think that this is an uphill battle. I think Marvin Lewis is a mediocrity at best. You can only blame the small market thing for so long. Good coaches overcome those disadvantages if given that much time. No?

Isn't there a pattern when it comes to good coaches or bad ones for that matter? And I do agree that some of it has a great deal to do with luck.

You mentioned Marty Schottenheimer. Isn't it crazy what his record has been everywhere he goes? Markets don't get much smaller than cleveland, san diego and KC. Contender in each stop?

What would Marty Schottenheimer do with this Cincy team? You know the answer.

[3kings]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Horseofcouse,


What would Marty Schottenheimer do with this Cincy team? You know the answer.

Choke in the playoffs!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kXX0xxuF3A

[horseofcourse]

I'll put up one more fact. I got abused for comparing Lewis to Cowher so I'll compare him to Wyche. In 1991 Wyche was completing his 8th season as head coach of the Bengals. He had a record of 61-66 and was coming off a 3-13 season. He had made the playoffs two times. His first time he went to the Super Bowl as his starting qb didn't tear up his knee on his first post season pass that year. He lost his first playoff game in his 7th season as head coach at home. So did Lewis.

Through 8 seasons, Wyche 61-66, Lewis 60-66-1

Playoff appearances, Wyche 2, Lewis 2

Playoff wins, Wyche 2, Lewis 0

They decided to fire Wyche, the mediocrity...it got worse...much, much worse for the Bengals until they hired their next mediocrity, Marvin Lewis. The Bengals had 7 playoff appearances in their first 35 years. Marvin's 2 in 8 is ahead of the curve.

Maybe these aren't facts. I consider them facts. firing the mediocrity can produce much, much worse results than the mediocrity.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Horseofcouse,

I think that this is an uphill battle. I think Marvin Lewis is a mediocrity at best. You can only blame the small market thing for so long. Good coaches overcome those disadvantages if given that much time. No?

Isn't there a pattern when it comes to good coaches or bad ones for that matter? And I do agree that some of it has a great deal to do with luck.

You mentioned Marty Schottenheimer. Isn't it crazy what his record has been everywhere he goes? Markets don't get much smaller than cleveland, san diego and KC. Contender in each stop?

What would Marty Schottenheimer do with this Cincy team? You know the answer.

And mediocrity is good in Cincy. I refer you to my above post. 4 playoff appearances in 16 years with the mediocrities...in between the two mediocrities for 11 years....zero and zero winning seasons. I think Schottenheimer would lose in Cincy. He's getting old.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

Maybe these aren't facts. I consider them facts. firing the mediocrity can produce much, much worse results than the mediocrity.

Or it can produce much better. There's always a risk when you fire a coach. But it's a move you have to make unless perpetual mediocrity is good enough for you.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Or it can produce much better. There's always a risk when you fire a coach. But it's a move you have to make unless perpetual mediocrity is good enough for you.

yes, the Browns couldn't get to the Super Bowl with Schottenheimer...4 years, 4 playoff appearances, 2 AFC championship games...not good enough. gotta make that next step, yes we do. Fired....next 7 years before the move to Baltimore...2 playoff appearances. I understand the logic for firing a guy like Lewis, I really do. I just don't agree with it. Until this year he had the team going the right way. I, personally would give him another year, most obviously wouldn't.

[horseofcourse]

It's been fun. I think I lost again, but I hope I made at least one good point amongst the volumous crap I put out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTwnwbG9YLE

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

yes, the Browns couldn't get to the Super Bowl with Schottenheimer...4 years, 4 playoff appearances, 2 AFC championship games...not good enough.

Once again, far better than what Lewis has produced and not the same situation.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Once again, far better than what Lewis has produced and not the same situation.

But a case of a firing that didn't work out for the team.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

But a case of a firing that didn't work out for the team.

I'm sorry for your loss. And for Brady breaking one of Bernie Kosar's records.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Oh my god.

he's right about Carson Palmer. he sucks.

[MaTH716]

Norv coming back.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5962286

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

he's right about Carson Palmer. he sucks.

That's not what I was talking about. Marvin Lewis is a mediocre coach. The oh my god was in reference to this....

No, noone on this board can compete with me for presenting facts and logic to any debate.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

That's not what I was talking about. Marvin Lewis is a mediocre coach. The oh my god was in reference to this....

No, noone on this board can compete with me for presenting facts and logic to any debate.

Ok, facts--an abundance I offer. Perhaps you got me on the logic part!!! Trying to defend the indefensible can be rough.