Take Control breaks down

[NTamm1215]

You can draw a line through Take Control, who apparently broke down this morning. Quite the job his trainer did.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

You can draw a line through Take Control, who apparently broke down this morning. Quite the job his trainer did.

Just saw that, shame.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

You can draw a line through Take Control, who apparently broke down this morning. Quite the job his trainer did.

So pissed off. He was obviously unsound. He's not the first horse to be nursed along through that kind of thing, but if he was gonna be off for years like that, just retire the horse. Last time out he was last. Not sure if they thought this would be a shot to get a G2 before retirement or what. Lack of black type and the long layoff didn't exactly make him a good stallion prospect so it's not like the loss of the AP Indy-Azeri genes should be mourned unless it's from an on paper standpoint, but this didn't have to happen. He cost a lot of money I know, but geez. Could've easily broken down on tv in the Marathon. Better for the audience not to have to see that, I guess. "Bad step" is a laughable line to give. Yeah horses do that, but this one? It's not like he was super sound.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

So pissed off. He was obviously unsound. He's not the first horse to be nursed along through that kind of thing, but if he was gonna be off for years like that, just retire the horse. Last time out he was last. Not sure if they thought this would be a shot to get a G2 before retirement or what. Lack of black type and the long layoff didn't exactly make him a good stallion prospect so it's not like the loss of the AP Indy-Azeri genes should be mourned unless it's from an on paper standpoint, but this didn't have to happen. He cost a lot of money I know, but geez. Could've easily broken down on tv in the Marathon. Better for the audience not to have to see that, I guess. "Bad step" is a laughable line to give. Yeah horses do that, but this one? It's not like he was super sound.

I wonder how much he was insured for.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I wonder how much he was insured for.

Am sure that will be answered, but be aware that only 1 of 7 of the highly publicized Shah horses that died over the 18 month period carried any coverage.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Am sure that will be answered, but be aware that only 1 of 7 of the highly publicized Shah horses that died over the 18 month period carried any coverage.

Who are these seven, and which one was covered? I had no idea he lost so many.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Who are these seven, and which one was covered? I had no idea he lost so many.

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ra...-baffert-barn/

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

So pissed off. He was obviously unsound. He's not the first horse to be nursed along through that kind of thing, but if he was gonna be off for years like that, just retire the horse. Last time out he was last. Not sure if they thought this would be a shot to get a G2 before retirement or what. Lack of black type and the long layoff didn't exactly make him a good stallion prospect so it's not like the loss of the AP Indy-Azeri genes should be mourned unless it's from an on paper standpoint, but this didn't have to happen. He cost a lot of money I know, but geez. Could've easily broken down on tv in the Marathon. Better for the audience not to have to see that, I guess. "Bad step" is a laughable line to give. Yeah horses do that, but this one? It's not like he was super sound.

Santa Anita clockers including Andy Harrington and Gary Young -- as respected as there are anywhere in the entire sport -- had reported Take Control as traveling smoothly, hitting well and showing NO signs of being 'off' since returning to training at the track. Young told me point blank this morning 'he was sound yesterday'.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Santa Anita clockers including Andy Harrington and Gary Young -- as respected as there are anywhere in the entire sport -- have reported him since the most recent return as traveling smoothly, hitting well and showing NO signs of being 'off'. Young told me point blank this morning 'he was sound yesterday'.

Steve the horse made 4 starts.. Not exactly the second coming of Evening Attire.. Thrilled that the clocker's liked his work but have a heart the horse had significant issues and while he could have been sound as a tack apparently something was never OK. It's not unfair to at least speculate that the horse could have been worth significantly more dead then alive. Is it? Baffert has had a myriad of horses expire this year.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Steve the horse made 4 starts.. Not exactly the second coming of Evening Attire.. Thrilled that the clocker's liked his work but have a heart the horse had significant issues and while he could have been sound as a tack apparently something was never OK. It's not unfair to at least speculate that the horse could have been worth significantly more dead then alive. Is it? Baffert has had a myriad of horses expire this year.

I was answering the statement that the horse was 'obviously unsound'. Based on how he had trained the last couple months according to professional observers, he was sound. I wasn't debating whether he was worth more as a pet, stallion, show horse, barn pony or pasture ornament. As of Thursday, he was a racehorse and his owner and trainer were engaging in the practices of what you do with racehorses.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I was answering the statement that the horse was 'obviously unsound'. Based on how he had trained the last couple months according to professional observers, he was sound. I wasn't debating whether he was worth more as a pet, stallion, show horse, barn pony or pasture ornament. As of Thursday, he was a racehorse and his owner and trainer were engaging in the practices of what you do with racehorses.

The assertion that a horse that made 4 starts in 3 years in training "was sound" for a hot minute is a stretch. Baffert is a HoF'r with few people that approach his brilliance as a trainer. That said, the horse was a complete laimo, because he had 5 minutes of galloping sound in front of Clocker A and B does not supersede 36 months of dreck.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

You can draw a line through Take Control, who apparently broke down this morning. Quite the job his trainer did.

Is this fair? I dont have pps in front of me, but I believe 5 or 6 starts and the horse is 6. Clear physical issues.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Is this fair? I dont have pps in front of me, but I believe 5 or 6 starts and the horse is 6. Clear physical issues.

It's not unfair

[randallscott35]

That heart attack story last year coincided with Baffert going ice cold in the Breeders Cup including the flop of Game on Dude...Of course this wasn't a heart attack so I'm sure he'll be fine on the big days.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It's not unfair

Im not even trying to defend Baffert, its just the way that person posted it, facts are facts. The horse had serious physical issues all along, no?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Im not even trying to defend Baffert, its just the way that person posted it, facts are facts. The horse had serious physical issues all along, no?

Obviously but Baffert is ultimately responsible and while he might not have pulled the trigger he is left holding the smoking gun. Truthfully we don't even know what issues that he had in prior years and if they were related to the fatal injury. However as trainers we must assume the moral/ethical responsibility when we are putting horses out on the track in the morning and afternoon. It is not a coincidence that certain trainers have a far greater % of breakdowns than most. One of the big name trainers in NY has had far too many breakdowns than should be kosher but because they are rarely big names or have pretty horse people followings they basically get shrugged off. Like most everything else in life, without consequences you wont see a change in behavior or in this case fatal injuries.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Obviously but Baffert is ultimately responsible and while he might not have pulled the trigger he is left holding the smoking gun. Truthfully we don't even know what issues that he had in prior years and if they were related to the fatal injury. However as trainers we must assume the moral/ethical responsibility when we are putting horses out on the track in the morning and afternoon. It is not a coincidence that certain trainers have a far greater % of breakdowns than most. One of the big name trainers in NY has had far too many breakdowns than should be kosher but because they are rarely big names or have pretty horse people followings they basically get shrugged off. Like most everything else in life, without consequences you wont see a change in behavior or in this case fatal injuries.

Fair Chuck, and seriously I appreciate you taking the time and discussing this kind of stuff. It’s good to have an actual trainer, who makes himself overly accessible to anyone who wants to learn, or just talk horses. I think its admirable. I read your stuff on PA all the time in the ask a trainer thread, good stuff. Agree or disagree with you, you have an opinion and share it, its cool.