Lasix

[wiphan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...ill&id=3324301

I would love to see what people's opinion of this article are. I am certainly not a horse trainer or vet, but I think the article brings up some good points.

[Cannon Shell]

I would comment but I have a rule against reading Bill Finley...

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I would comment but I have a rule against reading Bill Finley...

Bill Finley is an award-winning racing writer whose work has appeared in the New York Times, USA Today and Sports Illustrated.

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Bill Finley is an award-winning racing writer whose work has appeared in the New York Times, USA Today and Sports Illustrated.

i dont think he cares.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

i dont think he cares.

Really

[GPK]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I think Lasix is great...I had that eye surgery done years ago

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

According to Scavs and Cajun, after seeing the s you were hitting on this summer, you should go get the surgery again.

LOL.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

According to Scavs and Cajun, after seeing the girls you were hitting on this summer, you should go get the surgery again.

I would like to clarify my statement in regards to this, sir.....

He wasn't necessarily hitting on them, he was trying to get others to hit on them.

I, myself, was just having plesant conversation with the people of Saratoga, while running around like a bumbling idiot, Kev mistaked that for harpooning, or whatever guys do to overly large, but cute, woman.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Scav

I would like to clarify my statement in regards to this, sir.....

He wasn't necessarily hitting on them, he was trying to get others to hit on them.

I, myself, was just having plesant conversation with the people of Saratoga, while running around like a bumbling idiot, Kev mistaked that for harpooning, or whatever guys do to overly large, but cute, woman.

Glad you clarified that.

I have done some hogging in my past, thanks to some incredibly wonderful beer goggles. Those goggles have been retired, so hopefully so has my hogging

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I would comment but I have a rule against reading Bill Finley...

I wonder if he has a rule against betting on your horses.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I wonder if he has a rule against betting on your horses.

He'd be a fool when Chuck goes and wins at 25% this year.....

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Scav

He'd be a fool when Chuck goes and wins at 25% this year.....

I honestly hope he does. It was only a joke as I am sure Chuck will realize.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I honestly hope he does. It was only a joke as I am sure Chuck will realize.

I know, but just throwing it out there.

SIMON 4 LIFE!!!(Doing the ole Xpac/Hogan thing they used to do in the WWF)

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I wonder if he has a rule against betting on your horses.

i doubt he bets

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...ill&id=3324301

I would love to see what people's opinion of this article are. I am certainly not a horse trainer or vet, but I think the article brings up some good points.

Well, he's on a bit of a bandbox, beating his chest for rightousness, no?

It's been found that anywhere from 55% to 80% of horses bleed after a race - worldwide. All countries. Even the ones that don't race on lasix.

It's known that those with more severe bleeding don't place as highly (win) as those with less severe bleeding.

Horses that bleed can easily have permanent damage to their lungs (related to severity and frequency).

If a horse bleeds, it can't race in other parts of the world (= wastage). If it bleeds in the US, it can very often continue to race.

Lasix doesn't mask anything, really, regarding other drugs. Detection nowadays is far to sophisticated to be influenced by a little dilution in the urine.

Exercise-induced pulmonary hemorrage (EIPH) is thought nowadays to have multiple contributory factors, high intrapulmonary pressure being only one (lasix is supposed to attenuate the exercise-induced rise in pulmonary capillary pressures that contribute to bleeding into the lungs).

You might google "EIPH" and "Lasix", and read stuff from the AVMA, AAEP, on The Horse website, etc.

I don't think the use of lasix, or not, is a simple black and white issue.

[TheSpyder]

I have a Royal lasix intolurant condition.

Have to stay away from Dairy Queens.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by Mumtaz

Well, he's on a bit of a bandbox, beating his chest for rightousness, no?

It's been found that anywhere from 55% to 80% of horses bleed after a race - worldwide. All countries. Even the ones that don't race on lasix.

It's known that those with more severe bleeding don't place as highly (win) as those with less severe bleeding.

Horses that bleed can easily have permanent damage to their lungs (related to severity and frequency).

If a horse bleeds, it can't race in other parts of the world (= wastage). If it bleeds in the US, it can very often continue to race.

Lasix doesn't mask anything, really, regarding other drugs. Detection nowadays is far to sophisticated to be influenced by a little dilution in the urine.

Exercise-induced pulmonary hemorrage (EIPH) is thought nowadays to have multiple contributory factors, high intrapulmonary pressure being only one (lasix is supposed to attenuate the exercise-induced rise in pulmonary capillary pressures that contribute to bleeding into the lungs).

You might google "EIPH" and "Lasix", and read stuff from the AVMA, AAEP, on The Horse website, etc.

I don't think the use of lasix, or not, is a simple black and white issue.

There's a shock, vets are pro-medication. Gee they're not remotely benefiting financially from the Lasix,etc. that they put in the horses. The AVMA is also pro-slaughter. They might call what they're peddling here pro-horse. I don't believe that's the case myself. Even if you think the horses shouldn't be neglected and are convinced that that'll happen, you can be pro-euthanasia. I don't see them out there pushing people with lousy colts to geld them. The more horses with Lasix that run and go on to breed, the worse the bleeding situation gets in future generations. It should be a negative when you go to a stallion that he was a known bleeder. Not unlike a really weak hind end or pencil thin pasterns. Not 'oh nevermind, he'll just take Lasix.' It's a defect plain and simple. The heart-lung mechanism is one of if not the most important things on a horse. As wonderfully conformed as Secretariat was, he did what he did thanks to heart-lung efficiency. Need to see that in action? Watch the gusts in the Canadian International. As for the masking of other drugs, yeah I guess the World Anti-Doping Agency has it on the banned list because it masks other drugs based on no evidence whatsoever.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

There's a shock, vets are pro-medication. Gee they're not remotely benefiting financially from the Lasix,etc. that they put in the horses. The AVMA is also pro-slaughter. They might call what they're peddling here pro-horse. I don't believe that's the case myself. Even if you think the horses shouldn't be neglected and are convinced that that'll happen, you can be pro-euthanasia. I don't see them out there pushing people with lousy colts to geld them. The more horses with Lasix that run and go on to breed, the worse the bleeding situation gets in future generations. It should be a negative when you go to a stallion that he was a known bleeder. Not unlike a really weak hind end or pencil thin pasterns. Not 'oh nevermind, he'll just take Lasix.' It's a defect plain and simple. The heart-lung mechanism is one of if not the most important things on a horse. As wonderfully conformed as Secretariat was, he did what he did thanks to heart-lung efficiency. Need to see that in action? Watch the gusts in the Canadian International. As for the masking of other drugs, yeah I guess the World Anti-Doping Agency has it on the banned list because it masks other drugs based on no evidence whatsoever.

Vets would make far more money treating bleeders WITHOUT Lasix. A shot of Lasix is about $20. We used to spend hundreds in NY before they allowed Lasix treating horses for bleeding. Not to mention the hundreds of dollars in antibiotics following a post race bleeding episode. I have yet to see any studies that show that bleeding is an inheirited trait. I know of several mares that were confirmed bleeders that have been fantastic producers. Of course you have experise in all of these areas I'm sure. It is the same crap that gets spread in the business that sounds like it may have some merit and suddenly it is gospel. Naturally no one ever actually considers the horses that we have now, not some pie in the sky bullshit about how we need to weed out the bleeders to make the breed better. That assumes that #1 mares that bleed wont get bred, which is not going to happen and #2 that the elimination of it will benefit the racing public in some PR fashion, which it wont. Horses will still have the same issues that are here now and trainers still have to address them. By eliminating the LEGAL and economical means to deal with these issues you are basically forcing trainers to try other methods to treat issues, some of which may be much less effective and others which may be questionable legally. The rules are already tilted towards the cheaters simply by spending so much time and money on bs like Lasix and steroids and ignoring the real performance enhancers that currently go undetected and unresearched. The elimination of Lasix will cause more erratic performances especially as the chemists ahead of the curve develop a diueritic that will take the place of lasix while the guys who play by the rules get screwed again. Lasix works on the majority of bleeders better than anything else that we can use. It is cheap and it's side effects are not severe. All trainers have access to it and it is easily regulated. Suggesting that Vets are in favor of it because they profit from it is like saying Doctors root for their patients to get cancer so they can make more money treating them.

[tap]

"The rules are already tilted towards the cheaters simply by spending so much time and money on bs like Lasix and steroids and ignoring the real performance enhancers that currently go undetected and unresearched."

You are sounding like Scuds. And I don't mean that in a bad way. This is what he keeps screaming and getting flamed about.

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

There's a shock, vets are pro-medication. Gee they're not remotely benefiting financially from the Lasix,etc. that they put in the horses. The AVMA is also pro-slaughter. They might call what they're peddling here pro-horse. I don't believe that's the case myself. Even if you think the horses shouldn't be neglected and are convinced that that'll happen, you can be pro-euthanasia. I don't see them out there pushing people with lousy colts to geld them. The more horses with Lasix that run and go on to breed, the worse the bleeding situation gets in future generations. It should be a negative when you go to a stallion that he was a known bleeder. Not unlike a really weak hind end or pencil thin pasterns. Not 'oh nevermind, he'll just take Lasix.' It's a defect plain and simple. The heart-lung mechanism is one of if not the most important things on a horse. As wonderfully conformed as Secretariat was, he did what he did thanks to heart-lung efficiency. Need to see that in action? Watch the gusts in the Canadian International. As for the masking of other drugs, yeah I guess the World Anti-Doping Agency has it on the banned list because it masks other drugs based on no evidence whatsoever.

The World Anti-Doping Agency sounds authoritative but aren't these the people that framed Floyd Landis