Take Control breaks down

[NTamm1215]

You can draw a line through Take Control, who apparently broke down this morning. Quite the job his trainer did.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

You can draw a line through Take Control, who apparently broke down this morning. Quite the job his trainer did.

Just saw that, shame.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

You can draw a line through Take Control, who apparently broke down this morning. Quite the job his trainer did.

So pissed off. He was obviously unsound. He's not the first horse to be nursed along through that kind of thing, but if he was gonna be off for years like that, just retire the horse. Last time out he was last. Not sure if they thought this would be a shot to get a G2 before retirement or what. Lack of black type and the long layoff didn't exactly make him a good stallion prospect so it's not like the loss of the AP Indy-Azeri genes should be mourned unless it's from an on paper standpoint, but this didn't have to happen. He cost a lot of money I know, but geez. Could've easily broken down on tv in the Marathon. Better for the audience not to have to see that, I guess. "Bad step" is a laughable line to give. Yeah horses do that, but this one? It's not like he was super sound.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

So pissed off. He was obviously unsound. He's not the first horse to be nursed along through that kind of thing, but if he was gonna be off for years like that, just retire the horse. Last time out he was last. Not sure if they thought this would be a shot to get a G2 before retirement or what. Lack of black type and the long layoff didn't exactly make him a good stallion prospect so it's not like the loss of the AP Indy-Azeri genes should be mourned unless it's from an on paper standpoint, but this didn't have to happen. He cost a lot of money I know, but geez. Could've easily broken down on tv in the Marathon. Better for the audience not to have to see that, I guess. "Bad step" is a laughable line to give. Yeah horses do that, but this one? It's not like he was super sound.

I wonder how much he was insured for.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

So pissed off. He was obviously unsound. He's not the first horse to be nursed along through that kind of thing, but if he was gonna be off for years like that, just retire the horse. Last time out he was last. Not sure if they thought this would be a shot to get a G2 before retirement or what. Lack of black type and the long layoff didn't exactly make him a good stallion prospect so it's not like the loss of the AP Indy-Azeri genes should be mourned unless it's from an on paper standpoint, but this didn't have to happen. He cost a lot of money I know, but geez. Could've easily broken down on tv in the Marathon. Better for the audience not to have to see that, I guess. "Bad step" is a laughable line to give. Yeah horses do that, but this one? It's not like he was super sound.

Santa Anita clockers including Andy Harrington and Gary Young -- as respected as there are anywhere in the entire sport -- had reported Take Control as traveling smoothly, hitting well and showing NO signs of being 'off' since returning to training at the track. Young told me point blank this morning 'he was sound yesterday'.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I wonder how much he was insured for.

Am sure that will be answered, but be aware that only 1 of 7 of the highly publicized Shah horses that died over the 18 month period carried any coverage.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Santa Anita clockers including Andy Harrington and Gary Young -- as respected as there are anywhere in the entire sport -- have reported him since the most recent return as traveling smoothly, hitting well and showing NO signs of being 'off'. Young told me point blank this morning 'he was sound yesterday'.

Steve the horse made 4 starts.. Not exactly the second coming of Evening Attire.. Thrilled that the clocker's liked his work but have a heart the horse had significant issues and while he could have been sound as a tack apparently something was never OK. It's not unfair to at least speculate that the horse could have been worth significantly more dead then alive. Is it? Baffert has had a myriad of horses expire this year.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Am sure that will be answered, but be aware that only 1 of 7 of the highly publicized Shah horses that died over the 18 month period carried any coverage.

Who are these seven, and which one was covered? I had no idea he lost so many.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Steve the horse made 4 starts.. Not exactly the second coming of Evening Attire.. Thrilled that the clocker's liked his work but have a heart the horse had significant issues and while he could have been sound as a tack apparently something was never OK. It's not unfair to at least speculate that the horse could have been worth significantly more dead then alive. Is it? Baffert has had a myriad of horses expire this year.

I was answering the statement that the horse was 'obviously unsound'. Based on how he had trained the last couple months according to professional observers, he was sound. I wasn't debating whether he was worth more as a pet, stallion, show horse, barn pony or pasture ornament. As of Thursday, he was a racehorse and his owner and trainer were engaging in the practices of what you do with racehorses.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Who are these seven, and which one was covered? I had no idea he lost so many.

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ra...-baffert-barn/

[Cannon Shell]

I have no information on whether or not the horse was insured but I tend to think that given his and his trainers recent history no one would have been real willing to extend much exposure

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Kasept

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ra...-baffert-barn/

Fascinating.

Cannon makes a good point too, I can't imagine it would have been easy to insure this horse without paying huge premiums.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Fascinating.

Cannon makes a good point too, I can't imagine it would have been easy to insure this horse without paying huge premiums.

There is one pretty sizable equine insurance company that has never wanted to cover horses trained by BB or DWL.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I was answering the statement that the horse was 'obviously unsound'. Based on how he had trained the last couple months according to professional observers, he was sound. I wasn't debating whether he was worth more as a pet, stallion, show horse, barn pony or pasture ornament. As of Thursday, he was a racehorse and his owner and trainer were engaging in the practices of what you do with racehorses.

The assertion that a horse that made 4 starts in 3 years in training "was sound" for a hot minute is a stretch. Baffert is a HoF'r with few people that approach his brilliance as a trainer. That said, the horse was a complete laimo, because he had 5 minutes of galloping sound in front of Clocker A and B does not supersede 36 months of dreck.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by freddymo

The assertion that a horse that made 4 starts in 3 years in training "was sound" for a hot minute is a stretch. Baffert is a HoF'r with few people that approach his brilliance as a trainer. That said, the horse was a complete laimo, because he had 5 minutes of galloping sound in front of Clocker A and B does not supersede 36 months of dreck.

I agree Freddy. Your interpretation is undoubtedly more insightful than that of Baffert and two of the best professional bloodstock observers in the game.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I agree Freddy. Your interpretation is undoubtedly more insightful than that of Baffert and two of the best professional bloodstock observers in the game.

Here's a 6YO horse with four lifetime starts. He had one race in the last fifteen months, and that was a last place finish, beaten 17 lengths, in which he showed nothing. In the Breeders' Cup Marathon, his "insightful" connections sure picked out a great spot for his next start.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I agree Freddy. Your interpretation is undoubtedly more insightful than that of Baffert and two of the best professional bloodstock observers in the game.

I agree with me too and the horse is dead very very dead. And Baffert has had a plethora of stock come to their demise this year, even while Mr and Mr Bloodstock where watching them work with agog.
You want to brush it off that the horses demise came as a bad step that is your prerogative, but surely you cant deny or pretend this horse was without past significant issue that very likely had something contributing to its end. You make it sound like this was Saginaw who raced 50 times in fine company and finally hit a speed bump. This horse raced 4 friggin times in years and was trained by an all time great that actually still races horses.

[Cannon Shell]

Traveling sound and yet breaking down are not necessarily things that don't happen a lot in these situations. Again I have zero information about this particular horse but they could appear sound and still have many underlying issues that may or may not be known or addressed. I can't tell you how many times trainers find out about issues that weren't readily apparent when trying to sell a horse in training (not 2yo sales) when the buyers vet does a complete set of xrays/ultrasound exam that uncovers an issue or usually a potential issue. In many cases the potential issue never actually becomes a problem but due diligence is prudent when making purchases.

This particular case is a tough one considering Baffert's recent situation with deaths in CA and this horses spotty record and recent poor race. We will never really know what he knew but it looks really bad on the surface

[LARHAGE]

I agree with Freddy, this horse may have been sound, but sound to be a show horse , trail horse or some other less demanding career, he was CLEARLY not sound enough to be a race horse with the strenuous training required to do that, but to the connections these decisions are made in regard to the monetary gains, not the the love and concern for the animal. It's really as simple as that .

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Traveling sound and yet breaking down are not necessarily things that don't happen a lot in these situations. Again I have zero information about this particular horse but they could appear sound and still have many underlying issues that may or may not be known or addressed.

Appreciate Chuck separating the 2 portions of the situation. I was conveying from the original post about Take Control's 'soundness', that those nearest to him of late felt he was sound and going well. Obviously his back story indicate there have been plenty of things that kept him out of training.