Ky Derby Factoids.

[citycat]

What are some of your favorite facts/streaks about the Kentucky Derby? Will u throw out Bodemeister just on the fact that only one horse has ever won the derby that didnt make a start at two?

Scratch thru any horses with a female jock?

Just wondering what are some of everyones favorites.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by citycat

What are some of your favorite facts/streaks about the Kentucky Derby? Will u throw out Bodemeister just on the fact that only one horse has ever won the derby that didnt make a start at two?

Scratch thru any horses with a female jock?

Just wondering what are some of everyones favorites.

No horse making his route debut has ever won the derby.

No horse running backwards has never won the derby and the list goes on and on.

There is a first for everything.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

No horse making his route debut has ever won the derby.

I wonder when the last horse making his route debut in the derby actually happened.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I wonder when the last horse making his route debut in the derby actually happened.

Probably never. Sir Barton broke his maiden in the derby no ? I can't recall any.

[Danzig]

the first winner, aristides, was entered to be a rabbit for his stablemate chesapeake. believe chesapeake was the favorite coming in. aristides got left alone on the lead and was still in front at the top of the stretch. supposedly his jock was looking around to see where ches. was, and the owner was yelling just keep going or something to that effect.

and i think they used to have the derby on a wednesday.


the founder of churchill was meriwether clark jr, he was Clark's grandson (of the lewis and clark expedition). that ought to answer anyone's potential question of who is the clark handicap named for?

[RockHardTen1985]

Is the founder related to PBF?

[OTM Al]

Man O' War did not run in the Derby because his owner felt it was a bush league track. In fact Kentucky's favorite son never ran in the state.

[slotdirt]

The whole Apollo thing would be kind of a red flag if it weren't for the fact that pretty much every Derby streak has been broken in recent years.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Is the founder related to PBF?

who?

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Man O' War did not run in the Derby because his owner felt it was a bush league track. In fact Kentucky's favorite son never ran in the state.

MoW's owner didn't believe in bringing a horse back off of the layoff by what he called "racing in the West"

He spoke of Churchill Downs like it was Santa Anita.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

No horse making his route debut has ever won the derby.

Many horses have won the Kentucky Derby without ever having run beyond 6 furlongs prior.

The filly Regret and the maiden Sir Barton among them.

[slotdirt]

Aside from the Sir Barton race, Man o' War only stepped foot outside of the state of New York to race twice, and both times were in Maryland.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Aside from the Sir Barton race, Man o' War only stepped foot outside of the state of New York to race twice, and both times were in Maryland.

Man O' War left New York three times -- twice to run in Maryland and once to run in Canada in a match race against Sir Barton (who was rumored to be off form and injured)

Other than the Preakness -- which Man O' War won by 1.5 lengths -- he faced very minimal competition.

2nd start at age 3: Two rivals
3rd start at age 3: match race
4th start at age 3: match race
5th start at age 3: match race
6th start at age 3: Two rivals
7th start at age 3: Two rivals
8th start at age 3: match race
9th start at age 3: match race
10th start at age 3: 3 rivals
11th start at age 3: Match race

He faced just one older horse his entire career -- Sir Barton -- who was widely rumored to be injured and off form.

Racing was in desperately bad shape at the time because of anti-gambling laws ...and Man O' War fiested on one of the smallest foal crops in racing history.

He did have great early speed -- and that's a tremendous asset when you're racing in glorified walkovers or 3 horse fields.

[Thunder Gulch]

The last 10 years have turned just about everything upside down, with the 5 weeks rest, 2 prep schedule, geldings, et al, but for what it's worth, here are two long standing trends still standing that I tried to take apart.

The "no races at 2".
I think the "no race at 2" thing is overstated, but I do agree u need some foundation and experience.
So who are the ones who tried it in our time:

Summer Bird- won Belmont/Travers
Dunkirk- multi million dollar yearling, got hurt
Greely Galaxy 11th
Curlin became 2 time HOY
Atswhatimtalkinbout 4th
Wheelaway 5th
Indian Charlie, never raced again
Pulpit 4th, hurt, retired
Bodemeister ??

Say what you want, but there were some major talents here and the closest to winning was Curlin, who failed in the Derby but was good enough to win the Preakness and be HOY.

Now look at those undefeated going in:
Undefeated going in:
Big Brown 3-0 win
Curlin 3-0 3rd
Barbaro 5-0 win
Showing Up 3-0 6th
Smarty Jones 6-0 win
Trippi 4-0 (sprinter)
Indian Charlie 4-0 3rd

Gemolotist 5-0 ????

There were a handful of others going back to Mr. Frisky, but as a group, these have some pretty impressive results.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Many horses have won the Kentucky Derby without ever having run beyond 6 furlongs prior.

The filly Regret and the maiden Sir Barton among them.

Of course that was my impromptu response given this year's "oddity" as it were. I honestly don't recall a starter fitting the bill in the last 30 years.

As unlikely as it seems I'm not so inclined to completely dismiss Trinniberg. If I told you now the half mile was run in 48 flat with him on the lead what would be his chances?

[slotdirt]

Before 2011, anybody want to hazard a guess at the last Derby with an opening half 48 seconds or slower? I think the answer to that question should pretty much rule out the chances that Trinniberg will be going 48 flat on the lead.

[Port Conway Lane]

Of course it would. The question is what if.

[Port Conway Lane]

It would be a monumental misjudgement of pace on the part of 3 jockeys (maybe more).

[slotdirt]

Well, we're talking about something that has happened twice since 1970 (because I got tired of looking at charts though now that I look at it, it also happened in 1969). Based on the pace of the various preps and the chances of a filled starting gate, I'd say the chances of Trinniberg waltzing along going 48 and change are somewhere between slim and none. And even if he did, he's a freaking son of Teuflesberg (wilted after a 46.1 half in 2007) whose offspring have an average winning distance of 5.78f (!!!). The other sires with AWD's under 7f in the field are Dixie Union (Union Rags), Even the Score (Dullahan), Indian Charlie (Liaison), Rousing Sermon (Lucky Pulpit), and Proud Citizen (Went the Day Well and Mark Valeski).