CHRB investigates odds manipulation

Benny · #1 11-11-2013, 08:17 PM

A $30,000. bet at Hollywood sends a ml 30/1 to 3/5 then is cancelled with 3 minutes to post. Not the first time in Cali .

http://www.drf.com/news/hollywood-pa...s-manipulation

10 pnt move up · #2 11-11-2013, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benny

A $30,000. bet at Hollywood sends a ml 30/1 to 3/5 then is cancelled with 3 minutes to post. Not the first time in Cali .

http://www.drf.com/news/hollywood-pa...s-manipulation

Yea I was watching this as it was happening, you just knew it was going to be cancelled.

cmorioles · #3 11-11-2013, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Yea I was watching this as it was happening, you just knew it was going to be cancelled.

I'm sure it was just another "mistake" like the investigation revealed last week. This cancel sh!t needs to go away. You bet 30 grand, you should know what you are betting.

#4 11-12-2013, 01:06 AM

I am not sure of other tracks but at Sam Houston Race Park any bet above $500 cant be cancelled unless there is a scratch.

Kasept · #5 11-12-2013, 06:28 AM

There's really no 'investigation' necessary considering every venue that's been affected knows what the strange situation involves... It's a huge Xpressbet customer who fires wildly on a regular basis and sometimes changes his mind and cancels. There's not a lot more to it. I know people would love to believe there's an involved scheme behind this, but the guy isn't a sophisticate. The question is how to get him to stop the cancelations.

cmorioles · #6 11-12-2013, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

The question is how to get him to stop the cancelations.

What is hard about that?

Also, could you point out a time or two where he has bet 30k on a 30-1 ML horse and didn't cancel? I sure don't remember any.

jms62 · #7 11-12-2013, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

There's really no 'investigation' necessary considering every venue that's been affected knows what the strange situation involves... It's a huge Xpressbet customer who fires wildly on a regular basis and sometimes changes his mind and cancels. There's not a lot more to it. I know people would love to believe there's an involved scheme behind this, but the guy isn't a sophisticate. The question is how to get him to stop the cancelations.

4NJBets used to not allow a bet of $1000 or more to be cancelled online. You had to call in. I would think the risk of not getting to someone when you called in would deter someone from doing it.

Kasept · #8 11-12-2013, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles

What is hard about that?

Also, could you point out a time or two where he has bet 30k on a 30-1 ML horse and didn't cancel? I sure don't remember any.

I don't know how hard it will be, but you'd imagine they're not eager to inhibit his action. As to other spots, I don't know his day to day ledger but you also get the feeling he may like the notoriety that the cancels are generating.

randallscott35 · #9 11-12-2013, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

I don't know how hard it will be, but you'd imagine they're not eager to inhibit his action. As to other spots, I don't know his day to day ledger but you also get the feeling he may like the notoriety that the cancels are generating.

What a loser.

cmorioles · #10 11-12-2013, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

I don't know how hard it will be, but you'd imagine they're not eager to inhibit his action. As to other spots, I don't know his day to day ledger but you also get the feeling he may like the notoriety that the cancels are generating.

My point was exactly what you are saying. Of course it is simple to stop these cancellations if they want to do so. They obviously don't.

He isn't doing it because he changed his mind as you said. That money was never staying in the pool.

cmorioles · #11 11-12-2013, 07:47 AM

Obviously anybody that follows the game knew that money was coming out. That, in and of itself, isn't a big deal. But where does the line get drawn? Next time maybe he does that on every horses and cancels with 30 seconds to post. It is a slippery slope when the tracks let guys play games with the tote

10 pnt move up · #12 11-12-2013, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Obviously anybody that follows the game knew that money was coming out. That, in and of itself, isn't a big deal. But where does the line get drawn? Next time maybe he does that on every horses and cancels with 30 seconds to post. It is a slippery slope when the tracks let guys play games with the tote

How about doing it for the integrity of the game, or does that matter at all?

The pool was certainly manipulated because of his bet, whether there was an ulterior motive or not. I don't believe it was just a honest change of mind though but thats almost irrelevant in terms of protecting the betting public, which does not seem that important in this business.

Kasept · #13 11-12-2013, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

How about doing it for the integrity of the game, or does that matter at all?

The pool was certainly manipulated because of his bet, whether there was an ulterior motive or not. I don't believe it was just a honest change of mind though but thats almost irrelevant in terms of protecting the betting public, which does not seem that important in this business.

Think this cuts to the heart of the issue. People should be able to cancel and all, but this situation gets into an arena that violates the spirit of that largess and simply deflates the wagering public's confidence/interest.

10 pnt move up · #14 11-12-2013, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

Think this cuts to the heart of the issue. People should be able to cancel and all, but this situation gets into an arena that violates the spirit of that largess and simply deflates the wagering public's confidence/interest.

Maybe at Santa Anita they would have said no to something like this, but as you said Xpressbet has a much larger interest in this customer.

Alabama Stakes · #15 11-12-2013, 09:51 AM

remember the mad bomber at gulfstream in the winter of 94 ? used to make a hoss 1-9 first flash and watch him drift up. he wasn't a canceller though

Indian Charlie · #16 11-12-2013, 01:45 PM

I'd say limit the number of times he can do that.

After three major cancellations, he can only cancel say, maybe, 50% of any large bets.

Benny · #17 11-12-2013, 05:51 PM

This was posted on the PA board. Interesting stuff.

http://aysps.gsu.edu/isp/files/ISP_Field_1.pdf

All this discussion makes me think of the euro bookmakers who offer their own odds and whether we might get back to that instead of the pari mutual system. Thoughts ?

#18 11-12-2013, 06:44 PM

Its easier and faster to make $30000 bets online then cancelling it. Imagine counting 30k cash at the track then counting it again when cancelling.

randallscott35 · #19 11-12-2013, 07:41 PM

I have no problem with someone canceling a bet...if this is his habit than just put his action in closer to the gate opening so if he cancels before hand, no harm no foul

Aly-Sheba · #20 11-12-2013, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benny

This was posted on the PA board. Interesting stuff.

http://aysps.gsu.edu/isp/files/ISP_Field_1.pdf

All this discussion makes me think of the euro bookmakers who offer their own odds and whether we might get back to that instead of the pari mutual system. Thoughts ?

Yes its coming and its called exchange betting