Whole lotta cheating go in on!

[ellpol]

Todays fifth race at Saratoga proves again that the game I love to play has a whole lotta cheatin go in on!

[fpsoxfan]

It would be easy to say that, but the reality is they were all relatively poor horses. The favorites were all mainly bred for the grass. The winner was impossible to come up with, but the 2nd finisher could've been used. I bet the 4 horse and he never got a call.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

the 5 also went crazy fast..

[pointman]

Originally Posted by ellpol

Todays fifth race at Saratoga proves again that the game I love to play has a whole lotta cheatin go in on!

This post proves that you should find a new hobby.

[ellpol]

Originally Posted by pointman

This post proves that you should find a new hobby.

F*ck off As*hole

[Arletta]

popcorn.gif

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ellpol

F*ck off As*hole

looks like you found one....

[brockguy]

If it helps I backed the winner and the second

The favourites looks dreadful value and was worth playing something ludicrous!!

[GPK]

Originally Posted by brockguy

If it helps I backed the winner and the second

The favourites looks dreadful value and was worth playing something ludicrous!!

Stop with that awful bullsh*t.

[outofthebox]

Originally Posted by fpsoxfan

It would be easy to say that, but the reality is they were all relatively poor horses. The favorites were all mainly bred for the grass. The winner was impossible to come up with, but the 2nd finisher could've been used. I bet the 4 horse and he never got a call.

Agree. Same thing happened yesterday in the 4th and 5th. Alive in the pick 4 i spread deep in both races and did not come up with either of the longshot winners. I just shook my head and laughed it off. I mean this is Saratoga..Sh*t happens...

[Calzone Lord]

Anyone who thinks anything suspicious happened in the 5th race today at Saratoga is nuts.

The 70-to-1 shot winner Lady Utopia was far from a proven commodity.

She was just a 3rd time starter! Her broodmare sire Glitterman was an excellent stallion. Here is what I wrote about Glitterman as a broodmare sire of debuters :

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...9&postcount=17

I'm kind of surprised at how horrible Glitterman is as a broodmare sire with debuters.

2011: 4-for-46 (9%) $0.75 ROI
2010: 3-for-52 (6%) $0.75 ROI
2009: 3-for-50 (6%) $0.65 ROI
2008: 2-for-46 (4%) $0.39 ROI
2007: 1-for-37 (3%) $0.14 ROI


Five years of single digit win percentages, and brutally low ROI's.

For whatever reason -- a lot of Glitterman's don't fire in their debut.

Balto Star was Glitterman's richest son. He finished 8th and last in his debut at odds of 6/5. He was off the board at AQU in starts #2 and #3.

http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbP...try=USA&race=6


Just months later, Balto Star won the Grade 2 Spiral by 13 lengths. He won the Grade 2 Arkansas Derby by 4.5 lengths. And he was 8/1 in the Kentucky Derby after running last in his debut and off-the-board back to back in starts 2 and 3 at AQU. He eventually became a 7-time Graded Stakes winner after a terrible start to his career.


So, getting back to Lady Utopia, you have a horse who doesn't fire in her debut. In career start #2, she's in with NY Breds and breaks through the gate before the race. Something that causes a lot of horses at all class levels to turn in poor performances

Today, she's a 3rd time starter, adding blinkers for the 1st time with two excuses in her first two races. Basically, she was not a known commodity at all. Yes, she had only a 27 Beyer when she broke through the gate and raced without blinkers last time out, but the even money favorite in the race had figures of 5 and 45 in her two dirt races.

As for the 44-to-1 second place finisher -- she was a 100K purchase at a 2yo sale by Half Ours. She was making only her 2nd lifetime start on dirt and plunging in for a 20K tag. In her only other dirt start, she got bumped at the start in what was her career debut, and she faced the sensationally fast NY Bred filly turned Agave Kiss.

Basically, the even money favorite was a bad favorite in that race and an extremely medicore horse even for the cheap class level. Two fairly unproven commodities put it all together and finished 1st and 2nd.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by outofthebox

I mean this is Saratoga..Sh*t happens...

It's more likely to happen at places like Saratoga...but check out PID the last 3 racing days.

More recent racing day: 9/1 winner edges a 56/1 2nd place finisher by a nose. In the very next race, 16/1 winner beats a 62/1 2nd place finisher by a length.

Two days ago: A 91/1 shot finishes 2nd. In the very next race, a 85/1 shot finishes 2nd beaten just a 1.5 lengths by a $15.00 winner.

Three days ago: An 87/1 bomb finishes 2nd by a neck.

In the last 21 races to occur at Presque Isle Downs, horses have finished a competitive 2nd at odds of 56/1, 62/1, 85/1, 87/1, and 91/1.

[DJARUM]

It was bottom level $20 State Bred Maidens, what were you expecting...

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by DJARUM

It was bottom level $20 State Bred Maidens, what were you expecting...

That's kind of the equally silly mentality to "longshots won, someone must be cheating"

Each race is its own entity. There are a lot of bottom State bred races where favorites should dominate and the chance of 'chaos' occuring is virtually close to zero.

[Patrick333]

Originally Posted by pointman

This post proves that you should find a new hobby.

Post of the day.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by ellpol

F*ck off As*hole

Wow, I struck a nerve.

The premise of your wild accusations was utterly ludicrous, this race is far from an example of cheating and demonstrated a lack of handicapping knowledge and a jump to conclusions on your end.

As has been explained by others, particularly by Doug who can do a far better job than I, this is an example of bad horses winning a bad horse race. The horses that were bet were very vulnerable favorites.

To suggest that Gabriel Goodwin who was 1 for 34 this year before the race was cheating is laughable and demonstrates nothing but sour grapes on your part. Sorry that I pointed out the obvious, but this game has enough problems without players making stupid baseless knee-jerk accusations of cheating.

[DJARUM]

Well you made me look again, both were dropping and a muddy track. Blinkers on? Trained at Saratoga, The 1 wasn't dropping because he was any good

[DJARUM]

- 9 9 10§« 10¨© - - Napravnik R
running line for Sim Sala Bim

[Cannon Shell]

Newsflash for those looking for "cheating"
In general you should look for prices that paid less than they should not more. Like the time when I was working at Yonkers when the exacta in a race came back less than the 1st place finisher did to win.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Newsflash for those looking for "cheating"
In general you should look for prices that paid less than they should not more. Like the time when I was working at Yonkers when the exacta in a race came back less than the 1st place finisher did to win.

Shouldn't the word "time" be in the plural here?