Ok Guys you have a descent discussion going on here. But the big thing you guys are still overlooking is tha CQ of his dams Side has Strickly A Sprinters Pedigree And that is the way he ran in the lanes End.
No way Could I bet on this Horse in the Juvenille.
For those of you who did not see my post BEFORE the Lanes End on CQ here it is



OK Guys CQ will be somewhere in the line of 4/5 or less. LEt me tell you a couple of reasons why I think CQ is a bet Against.

A. I have seen to many young horses over the years that have a tremendous turn of foot Sprinting only to not show that same turn of foot around 2 turns and CQ kind of reminds me of that type of horse.

B. I am not as sold as some of you guys who think CQ has a pedigree that will stretch out. And heres why 1st off CQ is out of Circle of LIfe who made 10 Lifetime Starts with a record of 10---3-1-2 of those 10 starts 4 were made running a route of ground her record in those races were 4----0-0-2 and Sprinting COL had a record of 5----3-1-0.

C. Obviously Circle of Life was a much better Sprinter than she was a route horse, even though she was by Belong to Me who's off spring tend to do better at longer distances.

Just Because CQ is by Thunder Gulch alot of people will assume that a route of ground should be no problem.

And if you want to dig a little deeper in CQ pedigree CQ dam Circle of Life is out of Concentric who as of today has had 6 foals to race with only 1 of them winning a race around 2 turns.

I am not going to say that by looking at a certain horses pedigree that what I have stated here about CQ will hold up all the time I just think there are enough Negatives in his pedigree to take a stand against at 3/5.

By the way all the info I gathered here on CQ came from the APR.

I think you are all overlooking an obvious reason Circular Quay didn't win at Kee on Saturday. If you watched the race or read the chart, you would see that he and Great Hunter were moving at the same time on the turn, when Great Hunter bulled his way through between the horse inside him and CQ on the outside. Now CQ is a little guy and he got bumped more than once by GH, at which point he seemed to stall - probably got the wind knocked out of him a bit. But he recovered and came again, although it was too late. I was surprised that there was no inquiry on the race, but I guess because the finish wasn't close...., or maybe it was the inside horse coming out on the turn that closed the hole and started a chain reaction.

Very good analysis. People often ignore the Dams side and place too much emphasis on the sire side.

[quote=Round Pen}And if you want to dig a little deeper in CQ pedigree CQ dam Circle of Life is out of Concentric who as of today has had 6 foals to race with only 1 of them winning a race around 2 turns.

By the way all the info I gathered here on CQ came from the APR.[/QUOTE]

You should note that of those five foals who didn't win longer, one only tried a 2-turn race once - she was winning at sprints so they didn't try her going long again. Another couldn't win at any distance - just a bad runner. You may have a later edition than I do, but my APR has the other three as unraced. The evidence may be suggestive, but not definitive. My take is that he could be a nice miler.

PS. I got egg on my face in this sort of situation about Ghostzapper. His SW dam never won anything but sprints and her first good foal City Zip was a 6-7f horse. But the dam was never tried at longer distances and Ghostzapper was by a stayer (Awesome Again) while City Zip wasn't (Carson City).

First thing you need to get an upto date version of the APR mines 2006. Just so you know. of the mares First 7 Foals there is only one that is unraced. and thats the 2000 model by Gold Alert.

exactly. that's hilarious.

LOL. Good ol' Marx.

You couldn't have an inquiry for that. If you did, we'd have objections every race. You are correct in that they did start their moves at the same time. I think its a lot more difficult for a 2YO to move between horses like Great Hunter did, then have clear run outside of horses like CQ did. But the likely cause of the result was that GH handled the Polytrack, and CQ regressed on it. The moral for all: heavily bet favorites should be viewed with skepticism when running over the carpet.

Who the hell are you kidding? You are the poster girl for " internet coward "....taking cheap shots whenever possible just to get some pathetic little thrill. All you ever do is " demean and berate " posters.....and the only sand you have was kicked on you at the beach.

Shoop, Punkin Pie and Arromanches. Maybe throw in Lottsa Talc but I wouldnt use Genes Gray Girl.

I'm still up in the air about the BCJ. I have no idea what I am going to do with that race. I like Circular Quay and Great Hunter, but there are a few others that I think could pull the upset. I'll know a little more when the race draws nearer.

Had to throw my two cents in after reading some of the posts.

Oracle: In this thread you have stated "a horse is screwed if they have a huge burst of accelleration". If that wasn't enough you blame the poly for CQ's loss when Pletchers assistant stated "he loves the poly surface here at Keeneland". CQ is a very small horse and may well be a come from behind sprinter!

You slam Kelly's Landing, a track record holder who has been displacing his palate lately!

You slam Asi Siempre; but ignore her glittering works over the surface!

You say Great Hunter is one paced, yet the horse has passed an average of FIVE horses, EVERY time he has run!

Then you say you are a better analysis and race watcher than someone else? What?

Euro: Street Sense was the best horse and will smoke these in Louisville. I wrote a prerace story on the Delmar forum extoling his many virtues, I think it is www.dmtc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6076 At any rate it can be accessed at, under Saturday Keeneland play (bellsbendboy). Be careful, if you look it up you will triple your play on the colt. Calvin knew he blew it and said as much after the race. A Charasmatic clone with a huge future indeed.

Scav: More handicapperscappers bounce, than horses, for sure. BBB

I LOVED those horses! (Although I'm not familiar with GGG). I though it was such a shame that Shoop turned out to be infertile.

Good write up. I was going to be $200 to win on Street Sense, but when I saw 11-1 I was like OH MY and then I doubled my bet. I hope this horse goes off at 11-1 odds on Nov 4th. I will triple my bet to $1200 to win. I saw the work with Elusive and it was a thing of beauty. It was a work that reminded me of Barbaro's the Saturday before Derby.

Displacing palate? yeah, ok, sure. So the guy just figured out he needed a tie back or myectomy? Yikes, hes kinda old to have just had that happen.

Asi's WORKS over the SURFACE, meaning polytrack. Like I said, if she goes in the Distaff she gets beat like a drum

CQ, whats his asst trainer gonna say? Did he say that after the race? Or before? What a dumb thing to say, everyone says their horse likes a surface, grass, dirt or the tires, before they actually RUN on it. Works are works, racing is racing. He obviously didn't like it and wasn't striding out like he had previously and ran timid.

Perhaps Circular Quay didn't like Polytrack, I suppose it's possible that a close second place finisher doesn't like a surface, but to not at least entertain the possibility that Circular Quay is basically a closing sprinter flies in the face of logic. It's certainly no more illogical than chalking up Saturday's performance to a dislike of the surface.

He wasn't a close 2nd, and he was definitely no better than 3rd best considering the trip the third place horse had. We'll find out in the BC Juvy soon enough.

He finished second...obviously he wasn't second best.

Yer right....we will find out....assuming he makes it.

Yeah, to me a "close" second would have to be a length or closer. Quay lost by 1 3/4 lengths.