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-   -   Friesan Fire training up to Derby (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28735)

Sightseek 03-31-2009 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski
So did the 2008 winner...

That doesn't count, someone had to stagger in second.

philcski 03-31-2009 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek
That doesn't count, someone had to stagger in second.

LOL

DaTruth 03-31-2009 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

It seems that many of the Derby "rules" have been tossed aside the last few years. The 2yo champ/BC Juvy winner is a throwout, the last prep has to be within four weeks, etc. The training game has changed much in the last 20 years, so perhaps the old rules no longer hold so much sway. Nowadays, it is common for a top horse to show up in a major stakes without a prep. Not too long ago, that same horse would have tuned up in a allowance or minor stakes at a sprint distance.

Larry did an amazing job getting Hard Spun and Eight Belles to run peak efforts in the Derby. He definitely knows what he is doing. If he feels that there is not much to gain but more to lose from another race before the Derby, then I trust his judgment.

Friesan Fire has raced four times at a mile or more since mid December. He has spent four months training and racing over the deep Fair Grounds surface. He may not have the ability to win the Derby, but he is going to be dead fit come May 2nd.

NTamm1215 03-31-2009 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
Back to back years in the early 90s the Derby Trial winner placed in the Preakness.

And the first of the two went on to win a Triple Crown race...in Canada.

NT

ateamstupid 03-31-2009 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer
Jones was also considering the Blue Grass for Friesan Fire.

Yeah I got that, but on what could you possibly base your contention that the fractions in this year's Blue Grass will be much more grueling than in '07? Or that it would be much more taxing on Friesan Fire than it was on Street Sense?

NTamm1215 03-31-2009 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid
Yeah I got that, but on what could you possibly base your contention that the fractions in this year's Blue Grass will be much more grueling than in '07? Or that it would be much more taxing on Friesan Fire than it was on Street Sense?

I haven't the faintest idea if it would have been a tougher race, but it's pretty safe to say there's an excellent chance the fractions will be quicker this year than they were in 2007. The fractions of the 5th at the Big M tomorrow night might be quicker than the 07 Blue Grass.

NT

Travis Stone 03-31-2009 10:41 PM

The Louisiana Derby offers an awkward gap to the Derby, particularly with today's standards of training. I can't knock Jones for training-up to the race, his options are limited.

SCUDSBROTHER 03-31-2009 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski
Reason?

(other than Street Sense was 5X the horse Friesan Fire is)

Cuz Street Sense had a massive tool for that track.

Scurlogue Champ 03-31-2009 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER
Cuz Street Sense had a massive tool for that track.


sumitas 03-31-2009 11:43 PM

It's tempting to conclude, as RandolphScott alluded to, that coming off a career top, the 7 weeks might avert a bounce in the KD . Otherwise, with the Blue Grass you might be in form for a 0-2-X . Not good.

Coach Pants 04-01-2009 12:04 AM

It's a good decision. I'm hoping this will catch on in other sports. Like boxing. Have about 6 fights and retire and have your trainer talk about how great you were. It would help the sport tremendously.

ateamstupid 04-01-2009 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants
It's a good decision. I'm hoping this will catch on in other sports. Like boxing. Have about 6 fights and retire and have your trainer talk about how great you were. It would help the sport tremendously.

Or having Rafael Nadal only play the French, then Federer just plays U.S. so as to assure we don't tire these poor guys out.

Danzig 04-01-2009 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
While I think it is a questionable decision to try to run 1 1/4 without a 1 1/8th prep, the 7 weeks thing isnt that big of a deal anymore. While it hasnt been done there are virtually no real contenders that ever even tried. With the light training schedules and spacing of races, it will happen eventually. The 3/16th stretchout would concern me more than the 7 weeks.

imo, this is the larger issue.

Travis Stone 04-01-2009 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid
Or having Rafael Nadal only play the French, then Federer just plays U.S. so as to assure we don't tire these poor guys out.

They've done enough. I'm looking forward to Nadal and Federer offspring, and we can keep the cycle going.

Oaklawnfan 04-01-2009 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't you want to see Friesan Fire "regress" in a race like the Arkansas Derby, and then "move forward" back to a new top in the Derby?

I've been to my share of Ragozin seminars, and it seem as if that is how it works, in Friedman's eyes.

This is really just conjecture on my part, but to run Friesan Fire in the Arkansas Derby would put him head to head with Old Fashion (who really needs to win) which I doubt Mr. Porter would want that. I also think that they probably would rather stay on the dirt so that would let Keenland out too. If anyone could train him up to the Derby, Larry Jones is one who can do it. IMO

CSC 04-01-2009 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I think the day of 3 prep, 4 prep campaigns before the derby are becoming obsolete. Why that is I just don't know for sure...

declansharbor 04-01-2009 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I look at it like this. From a standpoint of someone that isnt going to play him in the Derby, I like the decision. With his current running lines, alot of novice money will be thrown his direction. Had he raced again before May and disappointed, some/most people would've hopped off his bandwagon IMO.

That said, I'm sure LJ knows whats best for his horses. If he loses in early May, I doubt it will be the time off that did him in. As someone said previously, it will probably be due to the stretchout to 9 panels +.

I can see him pulling ahead of the cavalry charge at the top of the straightaway only to be overtaken in mid-sretch by a handful of horses and finish anywheres from 6-9.

booner 04-01-2009 02:30 PM

I'm in the camp of the "no 1 1/8" group. I think this will be a bigger issue than the layoff.


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