8/30 (SAR): Personal Ensign (G1)

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Gander

It was a Grade 2.

The King's Bishop was not a blowout.

NT

[Gander]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

The King's Bishop was not a blowout.

NT

Thats true, that was a good race. What do you think the margin of victory would have been if Vineyard Haven didnt swerve and knock the Candyman out of stride? 1-2 lengths?

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Gander

Thats true, that was a good race. What do you think the margin of victory would have been if Vineyard Haven didnt swerve and knock the Candyman out of stride? 1-2 lengths?

I think VH wins, maybe a half?

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Gander

Thats true, that was a good race. What do you think the margin of victory would have been if Vineyard Haven didnt swerve and knock the Candyman out of stride? 1-2 lengths?

Probably a length or so. Candyman never seems to pull away from anyone.

I think the argument that VH would have won if he didn't bear out is completely ludicrous.

NT

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I think the argument that VH would have won if he didn't bear out is completely ludicrous.

NT

Castellano pulled the riding equivalent of faking the defender off his feet and then jumping into him from the 3 point line.

It figures that a MASTER HERDER, probably the best in the game, would also know how to properly 'defend' against it. Although, that's not quite true. Most jocks know how to do what he did. They just don't do it because it's dangerous; the same way they don't herd like Castellano because it's dangerous.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Castellano pulled the riding equivalent of faking the defender off his feet and then jumping into him from the 3 point line.

It figures that a MASTER HERDER, probably the best in the game, would also know how to properly 'defend' against it. Although, that's not quite true. Most jocks know how to do what he did. They just don't do it because it's dangerous; the same way they don't herd like Castellano because it's dangerous.

I'd say there's a difference between herding and repeated left-handed whipping to bear out. Garcia took it to an extreme and ended up creating a potentially dangerous situation.

Castellano pulled the equivalent of faking the defender off his feet and then having him fall into you and tackle you on the way down and then punch you as you lay prone.

It was an easy DQ and I can't possibly imagine how anyone would think CCC wasn't going to win that race without the interference.

NT

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

At 1 1/8 I agree with you. Im not so sure at the Classic Distance.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Danzig

Thats the response I would expect.

[the_fat_man]

Come on Nick. If Castellano doesn't stop the horse from being herded by Garcia by tugging on him righty and then sticking him righty, he never goes by in the lane. That's the affectiveness of herding: a horse gets carried out and goes with the flow.

At some point, Castellano will either kill another jock or himself. The stewards really need to take his **** seriously.

You really think Garcia will be amenable to 'doing the right thing' and allowing another jock to herd his horse after what Castellano did to him yesterday? After what it cost him? Doubtful. There's a protocol these guys follow and Castellano, who herds at will, went against it. I can only hope it's Castellano doing the herding when it happens.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Thats the response I would expect. Rachel has yet to go the classic distance, IP is a proven stayer. Who has now run 2 gigantic races.

lol

yeah, that's why everyone is ducking icon project, right? i know every day when i read bloodhorse, trainers are talking about trying to avoid icon project.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Danzig

lol

yeah, that's why everyone is ducking icon project, right? i know every day when i read bloodhorse, trainers are talking about trying to avoid icon project.

Danzig its not the point I was making. IP has now run 2 gigantic races and her other race they crawled up front over a speed favoring track. She is clearly a stayer, she has gone 1 1/2 on turf and ran well, she has freaked at 1 1/8 on dirt and now 1 1/4 on dirt. She has to be considered legit competition.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Come on Nick. If Castellano doesn't stop the horse from being herded by Garcia by tugging on him righty and then sticking him righty, he never goes by in the lane. That's the affectiveness of herding: a horse gets carried out and goes with the flow.

At some point, Castellano will either kill another jock or himself. The stewards really need to take his **** seriously.

You really think Garcia will be amenable to 'doing the right thing' and allowing another jock to herd his horse after what Castellano did to him yesterday? After what it cost him? Doubtful. There's a protocol these guys follow and Castellano, who herds at will, went against it. I can only hope it's Castellano doing the herding when it happens.

I'm not sure I get it, you're blaming Castellano for not allowing Garcia to herd him? When they got inside the eighth pole Garcia knew he had nothing and his only course of action was to try to initiate some contact. He did it- to an excess.

Castellano stayed straight on CCC as Garcia continued to carry him out. The last bump was just the icing on the cake, as the foul had been enough at that point to warrant a DQ.

NT

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Danzig its not the point I was making. IP has now run 2 gigantic races and her other race they crawled up front over a speed favoring track. She is clearly a stayer, she has gone 1 1/2 on turf and ran well, she has freaked at 1 1/8 on dirt and now 1 1/4 on dirt. She has to be considered legit competition.

to rachel?? how many horses now have you said that about? it seems every horse that wins these days, you're immediately on here asking if they're the one to take down rachel. it's odd.

i hadn't replied to you much at all since your latest reappearance. i think i'll go back to that tactic.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Danzig

to rachel?? how many horses now have you said that about? it seems every horse that wins these days, you're immediately on here asking if they're the one to take down rachel. it's odd.

i hadn't replied to you much at all since your latest reappearance. i think i'll go back to that tactic.

2 horses.... QR and now her. I still beleive QR is that good. Rachel has done nothing at 1 1/4... Im sure she is just as good at the distance, but that does not take away from what IP has done. I think your being a bit unfair with the last 2 sentences. If you choose to do that, then fine. Im just discussing the horses.

[the_fat_man]

I you watch enough headons you'll note that ALL JOCKS basically do nothing when they get herded. This is because forcing their horse to stay straight results in a collision. As a congenital HERDER, Castellano knows this, as he's been granted the benefit of the doubt countless times by other jocks. Watch the replay again: he initially allows his horse to drift, then, realizing what's happening, resists, first by straightening him out, then by sticking him righty. Well, Garcia is coming out and Castellano decides to GO IN. He knew exactly what would happen. There's no collision if he doesn't straighten and then actually have his horse come in (to meet the other).

I'm not saying there are no grounds for DQ. Just that if all jocks rode the way the Castellano did there'd be a lot more collisions and a lot more dead jocks.

Castellano is just a punk. Sooner or later, he'll get his. It's inevitable.

[King Glorious]

I understand that we have gotten pretty bored with watching Zenyatta run the same race over and over again but let's get a grip here. She's still VERY good. Icon Project ran a nice race today but she's not in Zenyatta's class. She's won one dirt race. Don't tell me about the NY Hcp. That was a field of grass horses running in the mud. She was coming off of a loss to Swift Temper. While Swift Temper is a decent horse, she's not in Zenyatta's class either.

I can't believe that in the last five minutes, I've read people making arguments that Past the Point could be a legit opponent for Rachel and that Icon Project can beat Zenyatta.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

2 horses.... QR and now her. I still beleive QR is that good. Rachel has done nothing at 1 1/4... Im sure she is just as good at the distance, but that does not take away from what IP has done. I think your being a bit unfair with the last 2 sentences. If you choose to do that, then fine. Im just discussing the horses.

Do you think that if the Kentucky Oaks or the Mother Goose would have been another 1/8th of a mile, it would have really made a difference? If they had been, she might have won by 30 instead of just 20. Would you have doubted her chances if she had run in the Alabama?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I can't believe that in the last five minutes, I've read people making arguments that Past the Point could be a legit opponent for Rachel and that Icon Project can beat Zenyatta.

Really? I thought you've been a regular here for more than ten minutes.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Really? I thought you've been a regular here for more than ten minutes.

Point taken.

[Linny]

Garcia will get days for his ride on VH. He looked outside and saw CCM and kept at it with the left hand. He moved out repeatedly and the 2 horses were entangled for a step or two. There was no reason for such use of the left hand.