How would The Classic have been...

ALostTexan · #1 10-27-2007, 06:49 PM

...if Invasor didn't have his injury and ran today? Would have been an interesting year...

Danzig · #2 10-27-2007, 06:50 PM

thoughts like those will keep you up nights.

The Indomitable DrugS · #3 10-27-2007, 07:01 PM

The way Curlin ran - I haven't watched replays and studied charts and done any work on todays races - but I doubt he was beating Curlin today.

While Invasor is obviously a MUCH better horse than Hard Spun....Hard Spun is an underrated horse when he makes the lead....and it was totally shocking with the ease that Curlin passed him - especially considering how Hard Spun had a favorable pace on top of making the lead.

On first impressions - even though everything went the way you'd draw it up forHard Spun...he was no disapointment today at all. I certainly don't think Hard Spun lost anything in defeat...even with the harshest of critics who knew he had it all his way.

Curlin is just plain awesome. I think Invasor's class probably would have willed him past HS though.

Danzig · #4 10-27-2007, 07:02 PM

how many people can't/won't celebrate curlin? i have a hard time with it. honestly, i do. i wish that horse was with practically anyone else.

The Indomitable DrugS · #5 10-27-2007, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

how many people can't/won't celebrate curlin? i have a hard time with it. honestly, i do. i wish that horse was with practically anyone else.

Well - I met Steve Asmussen up here this September - and he seemed to enjoy talking with me...so much so that our conversation carried for over ten minutes and he wasn't even the one who ended it.

So, while he might be a convicted cheater...... he's nice to DrugS. And honestly, isn't that what really matters when judging someone anyway?

In all seriousness - Curlin ran a MONSTER debut race at Gulfstream for a trainer who no one has ever accused of taking advantages. He was all over the racetrack - and his adjusted final time in that maiden victory was faster than seasoned stake horses Nobiz Like Shobiz and Scat Daddy ran in a stake race on the same card.

I think Curlin is a spectacular horse who would have been fine for any competent trainer. I have no problem rooting for him. He isn't a horse who made some hard to explain move-up when switched to a "super trainer" - like a certain 2005 Horse of the Year was.

ateamstupid · #6 10-27-2007, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

how many people can't/won't celebrate curlin? i have a hard time with it. honestly, i do. i wish that horse was with practically anyone else.

Been saying this since the Preakness. Of course it sucks that the horse is managed by criminals, but he's a flat-out superstar nonetheless, and he just completed one of the more impressive seasons I've seen since I started watching racing.

SentToStud · #7 10-27-2007, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Well - I met Steve Asmussen up here this September - and he seemed to enjoy talking with me...so much so that our conversation carried for over ten minutes and he wasn't even the one who ended it.

So, while he might be a convicted cheater...... he's nice to DrugS. And honestly, isn't that what really matters when judging someone anyway?

In all seriousness - Curlin ran a MONSTER debut race at Gulfstream for a trainer who no one has ever accused of taking advantages. He was all over the racetrack - and his adjusted final time in that maiden victory was faster than seasoned stake horses Nobiz Like Shobiz and Scat Daddy ran in a stake race on the same card.

I think Curlin is a spectacular horse who would have been fine for any competent trainer. I have no problem rooting for him. He isn't a horse who made some hard to explain move-up when switched to a "super trainer" - like a certain 2005 Horse of the Year was.

Why the coyish slam on Dutrow? Why not say it straight up? Go on and say there's no way he could improve a horse trained by Reinstedler and that the horse was busy training himself the first 3/4 of the year when he was winless.

What exactly do you think Dutrow did to the horse to improve him?

While you're at it, fill me in on how he kept moving Kip Deville up and won a half dozen G1s with Silver Train, ok?

Dutrow's got 3 wins from 6 total Breeders Cup starters.

Maybe you should go interview him?

Most important, why in the world would you be the one to cut short time spent with the trainer of the HOTY? If you had a date with Rosemary, Jr., that's one thing. Anything else, ....

TitanSooner · #8 10-27-2007, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Well - I met Steve Asmussen up here this September - and he seemed to enjoy talking with me...so much so that our conversation carried for over ten minutes and he wasn't even the one who ended it.

So, while he might be a convicted cheater...... he's nice to DrugS. And honestly, isn't that what really matters when judging someone anyway?

In all seriousness - Curlin ran a MONSTER debut race at Gulfstream for a trainer who no one has ever accused of taking advantages. He was all over the racetrack - and his adjusted final time in that maiden victory was faster than seasoned stake horses Nobiz Like Shobiz and Scat Daddy ran in a stake race on the same card.

I think Curlin is a spectacular horse who would have been fine for any competent trainer. I have no problem rooting for him. He isn't a horse who made some hard to explain move-up when switched to a "super trainer" - like a certain 2005 Horse of the Year was.

Amen.. that was an awesome run.

Danzig · #9 10-27-2007, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Been saying this since the Preakness. Of course it sucks that the horse is managed by criminals, but he's a flat-out superstar nonetheless, and he just completed one of the more impressive seasons I've seen since I started watching racing.

yeah, he's good. makes it that much harder to appreciate.

Danzig · #10 10-27-2007, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Well - I met Steve Asmussen up here this September - and he seemed to enjoy talking with me...so much so that our conversation carried for over ten minutes and he wasn't even the one who ended it.

So, while he might be a convicted cheater...... he's nice to DrugS. And honestly, isn't that what really matters when judging someone anyway?

In all seriousness - Curlin ran a MONSTER debut race at Gulfstream for a trainer who no one has ever accused of taking advantages. He was all over the racetrack - and his adjusted final time in that maiden victory was faster than seasoned stake horses Nobiz Like Shobiz and Scat Daddy ran in a stake race on the same card.

I think Curlin is a spectacular horse who would have been fine for any competent trainer. I have no problem rooting for him. He isn't a horse who made some hard to explain move-up when switched to a "super trainer" - like a certain 2005 Horse of the Year was.

i don't care if he could charm a free nookie from a hooker, he's a many times over cheater.
as for the horse, yeah, he's good and has been so from the get go. dammed shame that guy gets to celebrate as tho he had something to do with it. so, as always with that one, i try to focus on the exploits of curlin, not the fact that a certain oh so charismatic trainer gets a windfall from the horse being so good.
would be much easier to stomach had he stayed with ms pitts.

Merlinsky · #11 10-27-2007, 08:37 PM

As much as I want to grumble, I can't argue with a time of 2:00.59. A second and a half faster than Invasor last year. So there's no way to make his connections seem more warm and fuzzy? Would beer goggles help?

The ESPN folks sure seemed to have trouble liking those people. Rather surprised they didn't try to gloss over it but too many informed people would smell a rat. There aren't just laypersons watching for whom to create a BS feel good tale.

Danzig · #12 10-27-2007, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

As much as I want to grumble, I can't argue with a time of 2:00.59. A second and a half faster than Invasor last year. So there's no way to make his connections seem more warm and fuzzy? Would beer goggles help?

i don't like to compare times from different tracks, surfaces, pace, etc.
as for beer goggles, it would take a LOT of beer.
i think curlin is top notch. but his humans.....ugh

pass the beer.

as for the espn folk, they aren't the only ones. is it just me, or was the grandstand somewhat subdued at races end?

Merlinsky · #13 10-27-2007, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

as for the espn folk, they aren't the only ones. is it just me, or was the grandstand somewhat subdued at races end?

Not sure if they were subdued over Curlin or not. Remember the screens were out for George. Hard to get too excited.

Danzig · #14 10-27-2007, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Not sure if they were subdued over Curlin or not. Remember the screens were out for George. Hard to get too excited.

yeah, that's true. poor george.

The Indomitable DrugS · #15 10-27-2007, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Why the coyish slam on Dutrow?

The '05 and soon to be named '07 Horse of the Year both were trained by guys who served fairly lengthy suspensions during their championship season.

In my opinion - Saint Liam (rest in peace) was a horse who wouldn't have been near as dominant for most competent trainers. I believe Curlin, on the other hand, would be.

Dutrow is the best move-up artist at the top level the East has to offer.

If you remember out West - some red-hot Turf Paradice trainer named Jeff Mullins ran a very troubled and narrowly beaten 3rd at big odds with a horse named Lusty Latin in the '02 Santa Anita Derby.

Mullins proceeded to win each of the next three Santa Anita Derby's with crazy longshots.

I'm personally skeptical of how accomplished some of these horses would have been in the hands of competent trainers who aren't move-up artists.

MaTH716 · #16 10-27-2007, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't like to compare times from different tracks, surfaces, pace, etc.
as for beer goggles, it would take a LOT of beer.
i think curlin is top notch. but his humans.....ugh

pass the beer.

as for the espn folk, they aren't the only ones. is it just me, or was the grandstand somewhat subdued at races end?

I think after the last race people rushed the hell out of there. Especially if they were there the day before and knew that the traffic getting out was ridiculous. I bet you that half of the people in the winners circle did not even know that GW broke down. I know I didn't.

dalakhani · #17 10-28-2007, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The '05 and soon to be named '07 Horse of the Year both were trained by guys who served fairly lengthy suspensions during their championship season.

In my opinion - Saint Liam (rest in peace) was a horse who wouldn't have been near as dominant for most competent trainers. I believe Curlin, on the other hand, would be.

Dutrow is the best move-up artist at the top level the East has to offer.

If you remember out West - some red-hot Turf Paradice trainer named Jeff Mullins ran a very troubled and narrowly beaten 3rd at big odds with a horse named Lusty Latin in the '02 Santa Anita Derby.

Mullins proceeded to win each of the next three Santa Anita Derby's with crazy longshots.

I'm personally skeptical of how accomplished some of these horses would have been in the hands of competent trainers who aren't move-up artists.

Just to add, Lusty Latin ended up running for cheap tags for every Juice guy in the mid atlantic.

cmorioles · #18 10-28-2007, 09:13 AM

Invasor would not have beaten Curlin.

dalakhani · #19 10-28-2007, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Invasor would not have beaten Curlin.

Really? How do you know?

GenuineRisk · #20 10-28-2007, 09:18 AM

I can't help but wish the legal issues don't resolve soon- the longer they take to resolve, the longer Curlin will keep running, I hope!