Pirates pitching future looks very bright

[Calzone Lord]

The Pirates have had a losing season every single year since 1992. Rooting against them is like rooting against a handicapped child...only Justin Dew would do that.

Obviously, that futility will end this year. Despite being a money-line underdog on the strong majority of nights so far, they're 14 games over .500

In all of baseball, only the St. Louis Cardinals have a better record. The Pirates .595 win percentage even tops the AL best Boston Red Sox.

Jeff Locke (Age 25) is the only Pirates starting pitcher who has stayed healthy this year, in his 15 starts, he has a National League best ERA of 2.01 among all starting pitchers.

Gerrit Cole (Age 22) was a recent #1 overall pick in the draft. He's made just 3 career starts, and he's got the winning decision in all of them, over former Cy Young winners Tim Lincecum and Zack Greinke ...and Friday night he beat Angels ace Jared Weaver in a game where his fastball repeatedly hit 100 MPH.

Locke doesn't have the overpowering stuff Cole has...but he paints the corners and pounds his fastball down in the strike zone. He hasn't always got the respect from the home plate ump that he deserves.

In one outing against the Cubs at Wrigley, he gave up just one-hit in 5.2 innings...But allowed 7 walks. K-Zone graphics had him painting the edge of the corners on pitches called balls all game long.

Gerrit Cole has electric stuff, but is far from a savvy and artful pitcher like Locke. 3-0 record or not, he belongs in the minors and needs more time to develop. He simply bears down with his fastball and throws it right over the heart of the plate. He has a very good slider, but he hasn't used it often enough on 2 strike counts.

The Pirates bullpen is sensational.

Grilli is 26-for-27 in save opportunities, with an ERA of 1.07 and a WHIP of 0.74

Melancon (Age 28) in 37 appearances, has an ERA of 0.99 and WHIP of 0.88

Justin Wilson (Lefty, Age 25) has pitched 41.2 innings, with an ERA of 2.16 and a WHIP of 1.01 -- his fastball has reached 100 MPH on several occasions and his oppositions batting average is .176

Bryan Morris (Righty, Age 26) has pitched 32.2 innings with an ERA of 2.48 and a WHIP of 0.95

Even the best hitters from the Pirates are very young. The great Andrew McCutchen is 26 years old. Marte is 24 years old. Neil Walker is 27 years old. Pedro Alverez is 26 years old. Jordy Mercer is hitting .290 with power at shortstop, and playing great defense, he's only 26 years old.

The last time the Pirates had a winning record, George H. W. Bush was president and Ron McAnally won his his 2nd straight Eclipse Award for outstanding trainer.

The Pirates are 0-for-8 with Clinton, 0-for-8 with Dubya, and 0-for-4 with Obama, so far. A losing record all the time.

An overabundance of talented young players is changing that.

[ninetoone]

I hope you're right about them...but they were 67-54 on August 19th last year & finished 79-83. Hopefully it will be different this year.

[Duvalier]

Won't be long before top prospect Jameson Taillon, the number 2 overall pick in 2010 will be added to that staff too.

[3kings]

Cole looks like he is for real. I know it is only 3 games gut he throws strikes, 100 MPR, and the balls that are hit kind of thud off the bat. The problem with the Pirates in the past couple if years is they don't really manufacture runs. When a guy or two are hot they score runs but they are susceptible to long run scoring slumps. That is what happened the last two Augusts after promising starts.

[Calzone Lord]

A 6-1 Pirates win over the Angels tonight.

The Angles opened up as a -130 favorite tonight, albeit at home, but with a bullpen guy named to start facing off against Francisco Liriano.

Of all the great pitching on the Pirates staff ... Liriano has actually been the guy who has been getting the worst looking swings from opposing batters this year.

He whiffed Mike Trout and even got a few very silly looking swing and misses out of him. Liriano's change-up has been very good. He's now 6-3 with just a 2.30 ERA.

They have a chance to sweep the Angels tomorrow...but will have to do it as a clear-cut underdog again.

Angels starter J. Blanton, who is 1-10 with a 5.62 ERA is a favorite against Pirates sinkerballer Charlie Morton.

Pirates now have the clear-cut 2nd best record in all of baseball, and they're an underdog a strong majority of night. Especially since A. J. Burnett and Wandy Rodriguez have gone to the DL.

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

The Pirates have had a losing season every single year since 1992. Rooting against them is like rooting against a handicapped child...only Justin Dew would do that.

Yes..1992..I was at one of the playoff games in Pgh with my Dad and Son. We were in the right field stands and Bonds lined a home run over our heads..My Dad says 'what happened', told him Bonds won the game..still have my ticket stub...Been a Buc fan since before Bob Prince..still have an unopened 6-pack of Iron City beer. 'Pirates - Back to back Eastern Division Champions'. and another 'Saluting the 1995 AFC champions'. Big Steeler fan also of course..
Been torture last 20 years following the Pirates, in contention half the season then winding up in last place..Think finally they may hold on for the playoffs this year..
Favorite Pirates, Roberto Clemente and ugh Barry Bonds

[jms62]

Originally Posted by bigrun

Yes..1992..I was at one of the playoff games in Pgh with my Dad and Son. We were in the right field stands and Bonds lined a home run over our heads..My Dad says 'what happened', told him Bonds won the game..still have my ticket stub...Been a Buc fan since before Bob Prince..still have an unopened 6-pack of Iron City beer. 'Pirates - Back to back Eastern Division Champions'. and another 'Saluting the 1995 AFC champions'. Big Steeler fan also of course..
Been torture last 20 years following the Pirates, in contention half the season then winding up in last place..Think finally they may hold on for the playoffs this year..
Favorite Pirates, Roberto Clemente and ugh Barry Bonds

Dave Parker and Willie Stargell were best in my lifetime.

[Calzone Lord]

Angels have gone up from a -129 favorite to a -153 favorite.

Clint Hurdle is giving both McCutchen and Martin (the 2 and 3 hole hitters) a day off.

Hurdle has been trying to milk this team along, it's frustrating, but hopefully it pays off in the deep stretch of the season.

[Calzone Lord]

Big Pirates win today to sweep the Angels on the road. Winning as clear-cut underdogs in all 3 games. And their 4th straight win, the first of which came as huge underdogs on the road in Cincy with minor league call-up Brandon Cumpton starting.

Originally Posted by Duvalier

Won't be long before top prospect Jameson Taillon, the number 2 overall pick in 2010 will be added to that staff too.

There is gossip going around that he could be the key piece of a trade with the Marlins that would bring Giancarlo Stanton to the Pirates.

[Patrick333]

Grilli got knocked around in the ninth yesterday. Hopefully he's not wearing out.

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

There is gossip going around that he could be the key piece of a trade with the Marlins that would bring Giancarlo Stanton to the Pirates.

Yeah Taillon looks like what it would probably take to get Stanton, probably have to throw in Gregory Polanco too. Stanton would be a major upgrade hitting wise in RF though and adding him this year would show that the Pirates are serious about being contenders.

What's your thoughts on adding Stanton this year? The only problem I see with Stanton is his heath, he's missed a number of games over the past few years because of knee problems among other things...when he's healthy though he's one of the best power hitters in the major leagues.

[Calzone Lord]

I don't know enough about the business and economics of baseball, especially as it relates to a small market team. I know Stanton is young and cheap himself...and adding A right handed power bat in right field would be the best way to upgrade the current team. They say Tallion has an excellent fastball and curve, but he's benn stuck in AA because his change up is mediocre and they want him to develope that pitch a little more.

[Cannon Shell]

Ethier or Rios would be a huge upgrade though both dont come all that cheap. LA would certainly more or less give Ethier away of the Pirates would pay all of his salary but that won't happen. Even so you'd give up 10% prospect-wise for him or Rios compared to Stanton who seems to always be hurt.

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Ethier or Rios would be a huge upgrade though both dont come all that cheap. LA would certainly more or less give Ethier away of the Pirates would pay all of his salary but that won't happen. Even so you'd give up 10% prospect-wise for him or Rios compared to Stanton who seems to always be hurt.

Tough to see Huntington and Nutting paying a steep price in salary...though either of the two players mentioned puts them that much closer to a real playoff contender, I'd probably rather go with Rios.

It will be interesting to see how much they believe in Taillon and Polanco, as Taillon is about a year away from likely joining the rotation and Polanco who is still a few years away from making it to Pittsburgh looks like he has a higher ceiling than Marte, who has been great for the Pirates thus far. At this point I don't know how much you can trust Stanton to stay healthy to make the deal worthwhile.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Ethier or Rios would be a huge upgrade though both dont come all that cheap. LA would certainly more or less give Ethier away of the Pirates would pay all of his salary but that won't happen. Even so you'd give up 10% prospect-wise for him or Rios compared to Stanton who seems to always be hurt.

We need a right-handed bat in right-field...and Ethier bats left-handed, so he isn't worth it imo.

Travis Snider is a young player without great numbers, but, against right-handed pitching, he's had a lot of good at-bats and hit the ball extremely hard, but a lot of times right at people. He plays good defense for a right fielder, runs the bases well, and I just like him against right-handed pitching.

Snider is useless against left handed pitching, though.

The Pirates have a losing record against Left-Handed starters this year. They're DH'ing a minor league call up Catcher for the 2nd game in a row tonight...because the opposing pitcher for Seattle is Left-Handed.

In my opinion, adding a good right-handed bat in right-field is the best way to upgrade the team.

Our everyday Second-baseman Neil Walker (switch-hitter) is batting .178 with 0 Homers from the right-side this year, but .271 with much better power from the Left.

Our everyday Third baseman Pedro Alvarez is hitting .179 against Left Handed Pitching.

Our best Right Fielder bat in general, Travis Snider is hitting just .111 against Left Handed Pitching.

Our best bat at 1st base in general, Garrett Jones is hitting .083 against Left handed pitching this year, and is just a career .195 against left handed pitching.

Adding Andre Ethier, who is a .222 hitter against left handed pitching, isn't going to address what I see is the biggest flaw this team has.

Love the bullpen, love the starting rotation when healthy, love the line-up against right-handed opposing pitchers. However, the line-up is VERY shaky against Left handed opposing pitchers, and the poor record this year against Lefty Starters proves that out.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

Tough to see Huntington and Nutting paying a steep price in salary...though either of the two players mentioned puts them that much closer to a real playoff contender, I'd probably rather go with Rios.

It will be interesting to see how much they believe in Taillon and Polanco, as Taillon is about a year away from likely joining the rotation and Polanco who is still a few years away from making it to Pittsburgh looks like he has a higher ceiling than Marte, who has been great for the Pirates thus far. At this point I don't know how much you can trust Stanton to stay healthy to make the deal worthwhile.

Miami is in no hurry to trade Stanton because he is under club control for years and its still early in the season so teams aren't desperate enough yet. He is going to probably get in the $7 million a year neighborhood next year in arbitration if he stays relatively healthy so it isnt like the Pirates are gonna get him past this year at 500k. IMO the Pirates should try to acquire 2nd tier vets like Rios and see how much of his salary the Sox will pay to make him go away. LA has to be desperate to dump Ethier with Puig looking so good though for them it is similar to Miami's situation timing-wise as everyone knows when Kemp comes back they dont have enough space for everyone and NOONE is taking Crawford. As other teams fade guys will become available near the deadline and as long as they don't overpay in prospects they should add payroll to make a run at a suspect NL this year. St Louis is solid as are the Reds and the Braves look good but the Nat'ls and Giants are both mediocre, its hard to believe in AZ or Col, the Phils are done and who else is there?

Locke is going to regress to the mean as he is outperforming his best minor league seasons, the bullpen will probably also regress somewhat as they get used more. Their older pitchers are dinged up. They are gonna need more offense and it can be had if they are just willing to pay some salary. Even a Josh Willingham will probably be available and his contract is very favorable at 7 million signed through next season. Morneau may be available as a relatively cheap 1/2 season rental. I don't know if Milwaukee would be a trading partner in division and he would cost a good prospect but Aoki would be a perfect addition to the lineup. Speed and OBP and a decent enough OF, makes peanuts and is old enough not be considered prime prospect. As a leadoff hitter he'd instantly make that lineup better.

[Calzone Lord]

Moorse of Seattle might be a good deadline option. He's a free agent after this year. Career .300 hitter against Left Handed pitching. Rent him. Start him against lefties and every other game him with Snider against righties ...which could keep his old ass fresh and add a great pinch hit option when Snider starts.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

We need a right-handed bat in right-field...and Ethier bats left-handed, so he isn't worth it imo.

Travis Snider is a young player without great numbers, but, against right-handed pitching, he's had a lot of good at-bats and hit the ball extremely hard, but a lot of times right at people. He plays good defense for a right fielder, runs the bases well, and I just like him against right-handed pitching.

Snider is useless against left handed pitching, though.

The Pirates have a losing record against Left-Handed starters this year. They're DH'ing a minor league call up Catcher for the 2nd game in a row tonight...because the opposing pitcher for Seattle is Left-Handed.

In my opinion, adding a good right-handed bat in right-field is the best way to upgrade the team.

Our everyday Second-baseman Neil Walker (switch-hitter) is batting .178 with 0 Homers from the right-side this year, but .271 with much better power from the Left.

Our everyday Third baseman Pedro Alvarez is hitting .179 against Left Handed Pitching.

Our best Right Fielder bat in general, Travis Snider is hitting just .111 against Left Handed Pitching.

Our best bat at 1st base in general, Garrett Jones is hitting .083 against Left handed pitching this year, and is just a career .195 against left handed pitching.

Adding Andre Ethier, who is a .222 hitter against left handed pitching, isn't going to address what I see is the biggest flaw this team has.

Love the bullpen, love the starting rotation when healthy, love the line-up against right-handed opposing pitchers. However, the line-up is VERY shaky against Left handed opposing pitchers, and the poor record this year against Lefty Starters proves that out.

When teams aren't willing to spend they have to get what they can get which is why Ethier would be in play if LA is willing to eat money. He may not be great against LHP but he is a major upgrade over Snider who just isnt a starting level caliber player. Plus Ethier can play all 3 OF positions though you wouldn't want to see him in CF too much. Your main competition in the NL is StL, CIN and Atl and those teams have 3 LH starters of the 15 in the rotation one of whom is Paul Maholm who no one is scared of.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Moorse of Seattle might be a good deadline option. He's a free agent after this year. Career .300 hitter against Left Handed pitching. Rent him. Start him against lefties and every other game him with Snider against righties ...which could keep his old ass fresh and add a great pinch hit option when Snider starts.

He is a terrible, terrible defensive OF, one of the worst in the league. Plus he is always hurt. He can hit but hurts immensely in the field.

[Calzone Lord]

Right field is by far the least important defensive position. We already have a great defensive outfield. You can hide a guy out there. Russell Martin, who is number 1 in all of baseball in catcher ERA and hasn't played the outfield since junior college, has been started in right field this year against left handed starters. Have to get a good right handed bat to hide out there some how.