12/26-27 (SA): Malibu, La Brea, Oaks (G1's); Frankel (G3), Logan

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

This is low quality trolling.

If nothing else, Charlatan proved in the Arkansas Derby he is not a superior distance horse. Up to one mile, however, is a different story.

There's an old story about two guys being chased by a bear. One guys says to the other "you're not faster than a bear." The other guy responds, "I don't have to be faster than a bear, I just need to be faster than you."

If you want to argue that Charlatan is not as good a distance horse as some of the top ones of the past, that's a fair argument. If you want to argue that in the Arkansas Derby, he didn't prove that he was a superior distance horse, we could have that debate. But then are you going to tell me that Authentic proved he was a superior distance horse in the Haskell? We know what he did later. So Charlatan wouldn't have had to prove he was superior to Secretariat. Just superior to Authentic, Tiz the Law, and Swiss Skydiver. Nothing I've seen from him tells me he couldn't beat them.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

There's an old story about two guys being chased by a bear. One guys says to the other "you're not faster than a bear." The other guy responds, "I don't have to be faster than a bear, I just need to be faster than you."

If you want to argue that Charlatan is not as good a distance horse as some of the top ones of the past, that's a fair argument. If you want to argue that in the Arkansas Derby, he didn't prove that he was a superior distance horse, we could have that debate. But then are you going to tell me that Authentic proved he was a superior distance horse in the Haskell? We know what he did later. So Charlatan wouldn't have had to prove he was superior to Secretariat. Just superior to Authentic, Tiz the Law, and Swiss Skydiver. Nothing I've seen from him tells me he couldn't beat them.

I have a two part question. Who you got between Charlatan and Gamine?

Also did Charlatan do enough today to make you reconsider Gamine for HOY?

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I have a two part question. Who you got between Charlatan and Gamine?

Also did Charlatan do enough today to make you reconsider Gamine for HOY?

8f or under, i'm taking Gamine. Over that, Charlatan.

No, he didn't. But I would chose him as top 3yo male.

My question for you. Who do you think is the better horse? Charlatan or Authentic? Not which one had the better year but is the better horse.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

8f or under, i'm taking Gamine. Over that, Charlatan.

No, he didn't. But I would chose him as top 3yo male.

My question for you. Who do you think is the better horse? Charlatan or Authentic? Not which one had the better year but is the better horse.

Probably Charlatan, but if you asked me after the Classic I might have answered different.

Thank god you don’t have any eclipse votes

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Probably Charlatan, but if you asked me after the Classic I might have answered different.

Thank god you don’t have any eclipse votes

After the Classic, I would have said Authentic was the clear winner. I would change it now. Even then, I thought Charlatan was the better horse but one graded stakes win just wasn't enough to overcome the resume advantage Authentic had. Honestly, it still isn't but it for me Charlatan > Authentic on talent is more than Authentic > Charlatan on resume.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

After the Classic, I would have said Authentic was the clear winner. I would change it now. Even then, I thought Charlatan was the better horse but one graded stakes win just wasn't enough to overcome the resume advantage Authentic had. Honestly, it still isn't but it for me Charlatan > Authentic on talent is more than Authentic > Charlatan on resume.

I think you’re overestimating today’s effort a bit. That was not the Nashville we saw last month and my guess is he’s finally turned into a pumpkin. The others aren’t very good.

For the record Charlatan still has one graded win. He was DQd in Arkansas. Hay and oats Bob.

[blackthroatedwind]

Interesting how quickly people forget Nadal ran the faster race in Arkansas.

All the "Charlatan is a router" nonsense clogging the internet will eventually get flushed away and forgotten. Maybe in a soft spot, if he can control the pace, but I'm highly skeptical.

How bout just hoping he stays sound so he can run in the Carter, Met Mile, and Forego.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

After the Classic, I would have said Authentic was the clear winner. I would change it now. Even then, I thought Charlatan was the better horse but one graded stakes win just wasn't enough to overcome the resume advantage Authentic had. Honestly, it still isn't but it for me Charlatan > Authentic on talent is more than Authentic > Charlatan on resume.

Not sure what your criteria is for "talent" other than an unbeaten record. You keep saying Charlatan has won at 9f but he hasn't; he was disqualified in AK for testing positive for a local anesthetic.

Despite having a local anesthetic in his system at the time of the weaker division of the Arkansas Derby, the horse regressed 10 BSF points on the stretch-out under absolutely perfect conditions.

Meanwhile, Authentic, who presumably is less talented because he lost a couple of races, increased his speed figures every time he stepped up in trip and company. And he stayed sound while doing it. 87-90-98-100-105-111; no mean feat.

The only chink in Authentic's armor was that he failed to prove he could survive a speed duel although he hardly packed it in in either of his losses.

Charlatan hasn't survived a speed duel as of yet and nothing he did yesterday suggest he will be able to do so over a route of ground. The only thing he proved was that he will willingly sit off a run-off type (the way Gamine did behind Serengeti Empress) in a sprint. He was still well clear of the rest of the field early.

Considering that with his sharp speed figure drop off in his only route attempt (despite being left with a clear unpressured lead throughout) and it is clear you are way overboard on all of this.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Not sure what your criteria is for "talent" other than an unbeaten record. You keep saying Charlatan has won at 9f but he hasn't; he was disqualified in AK for testing positive for a local anesthetic.

Despite having a local anesthetic in his system at the time of the weaker division of the Arkansas Derby, the horse regressed 10 BSF points on the stretch-out under absolutely perfect conditions.

Meanwhile, Authentic, who presumably is less talented because he lost a couple of races, increased his speed figures every time he stepped up in trip and company. And he stayed sound while doing it. 87-90-98-100-105-111; no mean feat.

The only chink in Authentic's armor was that he failed to prove he could survive a speed duel although he hardly packed it in in either of his losses.

Charlatan hasn't survived a speed duel as of yet and nothing he did yesterday suggest he will be able to do so over a route of ground. The only thing he proved was that he will willingly sit off a run-off type (the way Gamine did behind Serengeti Empress) in a sprint. He was still well clear of the rest of the field early.

Considering that with his sharp speed figure drop off in his only route attempt (despite being left with a clear unpressured lead throughout) and it is clear you are way overboard on all of this.

Other than having him disqualified from the Alaska Derby, you pretty much nailed it.

Still, it's kind of an embarrassing error.