2014 admission hikes for Belmont, Saratoga: GA $5, Clubhouse $8

[Cannon Shell]

I have maintained for years that racing in this country is more or less doomed because of incompetent leadership and greed. That leadership isnt restricted to those within racing nor is the greed. The truth is no one HAS to own a horse and no one HAS to bet on a horse and no one HAS to breed horses.

I dont think people realize how few people are actually making any significant money on the horsemen's side WITH the slot money.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I have maintained for years that racing in this to is more or less doomed because of incompetent leadership and greed. That leadership isnt restricted to those within racing nor is the greed. The truth is no one HAS to own a horse and no one HAS to bet on a horse and no one HAS to breed horses.

How long before we run out of people willing to pay 500K for an animal that on average doesn't earn enough to even cover training costs?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by jms62

How long before we run out of people willing to pay 500K for an animal that on average doesn't earn enough to even cover training costs?

Amazingly enough they are a resilient group

Using racing for taxation advantages plays a role as well. Take those away and you will see a lot fewer owners ponying up big money.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So you are willing to ask why but because you dont like the messy political realities you just dismiss them? Discussing this particular situation involving NYRA without acknowledging the politics involved being a giant pink elephant in the room makes the conversation pointless.


I'd expect a little higher level of discourse here.

Did I ask why? I don't think so. I asked if Arlington gets slots money.

I don't mind discussing the reasons, I'm just saying most bettors/fans don't care about the why. Honestly, why should they?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Crist may be right substantively, but isn't it a bit ironic for criticism to be coming from an entity that just instituted its "value added" DRF Plus package, so its loyal customers now have to pay to read news articles?

Do you really think he is in on those decisions these days?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Let's not forget that that $16 for those seats and now the $8 clubhouse fee goes directly to the track. That $24 doesnt have to be cut up like $24 in wagers are.

But with churn, the difference isn't near as great as your post would make it seem.

[art vanderlay]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I must of missed this originally or it just didnt register, but where are they charging $16 seats on a daily basis?

It adds up to over 1100 for the season, 40 days for two seats in the clubhouse.
This was announced that it would also be raised.

As far as $5 for the program that's for my wife, the cost may be less but I wouldn't know I never got any change.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Did I ask why? I don't think so. I asked if Arlington gets slots money.

I don't mind discussing the reasons, I'm just saying most bettors/fans don't care about the why. Honestly, why should they?

They should care because it matters. I dont expect anyone to like paying more especially when they throw the "better experience" nonsense at you with absolutely no detail as to what that entails. But it is like saying that NBA fans should ignore the salary cap when talking potential trades.

Hell Kay more or less admits what they are doing here.

Personally I'd be for no charge for admission at Belmont and an upcharge for "premium" area's but NYRA can't do that because the state wont let them give the gate away. Not to mention they need the extra revenue to make the books balance for the 2014 budget. This board is acting in the short term because for most of them that is all there is going to be. If the state was serious about growing racing, Kay and this board wouldnt be in charge.

Essentially Cuomo is the villan here, Skolrton is the hatchet man and Kay is Baghdad Bob

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

But with churn, the difference isn't near as great as your post would make it seem.

Of course it is. They get 100% of the $24 minus state taxes. They get a far lesser amount regardless of the churn in the pools.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

They should care because it matters. I dont expect anyone to like paying more especially when they throw the "better experience" nonsense at you with absolutely no detail as to what that entails. But it is like saying that NBA fans should ignore the salary cap when talking potential trades.

Hell Kay more or less admits what they are doing here.

Personally I'd be for no charge for admission at Belmont and an upcharge for "premium" area's but NYRA can't do that because the state wont let them give the gate away. Not to mention they need the extra revenue to make the books balance for the 2014 budget. This board is acting in the short term because for most of them that is all there is going to be. If the state was serious about growing racing, Kay and this board wouldnt be in charge.

Essentially Cuomo is the villan here, Skolrton is the hatchet man and Kay is Baghdad Bob

Most NBA fans don't understand the cap, and most racing fans don't care who the villain is.

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I dont think people realize how few people are actually making any significant money on the horsemen's side WITH the slot money.

Chuck...who is making money in your opinion? Owners, vets, trainers, breeders, bloodstock agents, pinhookers or others I haven't mentioned?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Crist may be right substantively, but isn't it a bit ironic for criticism to be coming from an entity that just instituted its "value added" DRF Plus package, so its loyal customers now have to pay to read news articles?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

Chuck...who is making money in your opinion? Owners, vets, trainers, breeders, bloodstock agents, pinhookers or others I haven't mentioned?

A very small % of each. Everyone sees Pletcher or Jacobson or Ness winning races all the time or horses selling for $1 million dollars at the sales but they are a minute % of the total. The economics of the sport on the horse side are really insane. Even at places where slot money is added to purses you still have a large % of horses losing money.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Most NBA fans don't understand the cap, and most racing fans don't care who the villain is.

However for people that do understand these things (and pretty much everyone who has posted in this thread gets it or should get it), having a conversation while readily ignoring the political issues is pointless.

Think about why Harden got traded. Can you have a legitimate conversation about that topic without talking about the salary cap implications that precipitated it? This isnt much different.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Most NBA fans don't understand the cap, and most racing fans don't care who the villain is.

So anyone capable of abstract thought should simply go along with the mob that isn't interested in or capable of comprehending the motivating factors.. Got it.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by art vanderlay

It adds up to over 1100 for the season, 40 days for two seats in the clubhouse.
This was announced that it would also be raised.

As far as $5 for the program that's for my wife, the cost may be less but I wouldn't know I never got any change.

I figured it had to be Saratoga. I think that Saratoga and Keeneland are the exceptions to the rule where the demand is greater than the supply.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Kasept

So anyone capable of abstract thought should simply go along with the mob that isn't interested in or capable of comprehending the motivating factors.. Got it.

That isn't what I am saying at all. Even people that understand the WHY don't have to agree with it. Obviously many don't, judging by the board meeting and the Crist article, and several others I've seen from people that do understand.

I was just making the point that 95% or more of the customers that go to Belmont or Saratoga won't know why this happened. When prices go up, consumers make a decision to either still buy, buy less, or buy none at all. The justification of the price raise is not a major factor in the decision for most people.

Like I said, lets see what happens. I think we'll see another decline in attendance at Saratoga. I hope I'm wrong.

[Alabama Stakes]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Between tolls and gas they should be paying you to come to Belmont on the weekdays.

Yeah Tolls is the problem.....they don't have them in other states.

30 years ago........pay $7.50 hour 12 pack of michelob $4.99 Saratoga admission $2

now $30/hour..............12 pack michelob $8.99 saratoga admission $3.00


Beer and Saratoga are the 2 biggest bargains in history.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

Yeah Tolls is the problem.....they don't have them in other states.

30 years ago........pay $7.50 hour 12 pack of michelob $4.99 Saratoga admission $2

now $30/hour..............12 pack michelob $8.99 saratoga admission $3.00


Beer and Saratoga are the 2 biggest bargains in history.

since when?

[Alabama Stakes]

Originally Posted by Danzig

since when?

this was sarcasm....tolls are everywhere.they are a good thing