2014 admission hikes for Belmont, Saratoga: GA $5, Clubhouse $8

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by ghartman02

Somewhere, somehow racing needs a brand new business model. Like many of the comments, I remember going to Churchill in the 70's and it was $2 for the Grandstand and $5 for the clubhouse. Today it's the same. I haven't been in the past 2 years, but CD raised the price to $10 on their night cards, but they had a lot going on.
Attendance is down for a myriad of reasons. So here's my observations:
A day at the track is very long for the average person. Do we need 10, 11 race cards.
Customer Service at most tracks isn't the best. I've been all over and most tracks act as if you're in their way. I'm not a casino type, but the places I have visited the employees are so welcoming.
Concessions seem to be a sticking point. At the casino here in Cincinnati, they have several bars, and restaurants such as Margaritaville, Bobby Flay burgers etc. At Churchill Downs, I brought up the price of a drink and they're answer was other sports charge that. Racing isn't other sports. It's a gambling entity.
Women. Some tracks are so, shall we say in disrepair, and it's not a great place to take the wife or girlfriend.
In regards to Saratoga and Belmont. Both tracks to me are amazing. The racing is great, but Belmont is like a tomb. Saratoga is so awesome. I cheat when I go there though, I camp. It's a less expensive.
Bottom Line: If you increase admission, make sure there is value. Otherwise the economic situation won't improve in racing.

Funny how the feelings on Belmont are so varied. I think it is the most enjoyable, beautiful track in the country.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Yeah, $15 or $30 would really bring the fans in droves.

If you bet only $100, you are already paying $18-20 in admission...but everybody seems to forget that. Let's just keep tacking on more and more.

This was the best comment in the whole discussion.

If I go and wager in a casino on a slot machine and bet $100 the casino will get an average of $5 pending on the game. If I bet $1000, which is my typical handle if I was to go to the races for an entire day, its $50.

If I go to the races they get $200 on average.

One is free and the other is charging, you would think its reversed on the who.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

This was the best comment in the whole discussion.

If I go and wager in a casino on a slot machine and bet $100 the casino will get an average of $5 pending on the game. If I bet $1000, which is my typical handle if I was to go to the races for an entire day, its $50.

If I go to the races they get $200 on average.

One is free and the other is charging, you would think its reversed on the who.

Well said. Let's face it horseplayers are portrayed as degenerate gamblers by the media and the industry is treating us like addicts. Increasing the rates for us to get our fix chasing the big score (high) . The casinos understand that giving perks and low takeout games will get more folks in the door and churning that money over and over until it is gone.

To me it seems like the horse racing industry has too many old execs unable to grasp that it is no longer the 1960's and 70's

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by jms62

Well said. Let's face it horseplayers are portrayed as degenerate gamblers by the media and the industry is treating us like addicts. Increasing the rates for us to get our fix chasing the big score (high) . The casinos understand that giving perks and low takeout games will get more folks in the door and churning that money over and over until it is gone.

To me it seems like the horse racing industry has too many old execs unable to grasp that it is no longer the 1960's and 70's

i agree that the industry who makes its money from bettors seems to ignore who actually funds the whole thing.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i agree that the industry who makes its money from bettors seems to ignore who actually funds the whole thing.

That is why we have the mighty HANA

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You get that this ploy of making NYRA "profitable" on the balance sheets for 2014 is part of the plan to not "subsidize" NYRA right? Not to mention that it isnt in any way a subsidy, it is part of payment for the billion dollars of land the state now officially owns.

Having a philosophical argument about charging horsepalyers for extra's is a interesting topic. However in NYRA's case it isnt a apples to apples argument because there is real doubt about the true goals of the oversight board or at the very least the Chairman and several members. Plus virtually every racino is required by law not to charge admission. I mean who would hire Kay if the goal was to maximize profits at an entity that handles over 20% of the 10 billion or so bet in this country?

I know that, I also know that bettors/fans don't care (nor should they) what political maneuvering is going on behind the scenes. What fan is going to say, "well paying admission sucks, but I don't really mind because I know it is just the state trying to grab all the slots money?"

Enough on this from me, just going to see how it plays out.

[10 pnt move up]

The sooner racing gets off slots welfare the better because it was a short term infusion of cash, no way were the politicians going to go far this arrangement.

Racing should really be hoping the NJ online betting deal works out, that could open the door to full, legalized, internet wagering in every state, and that would grow the game.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

The sooner racing gets off slots welfare the better because it was a short term infusion of cash, no way were the politicians going to go far this arrangement.

Racing should really be hoping the NJ online betting deal works out, that could open the door to full, legalized, internet wagering in every state, and that would grow the game.

Why wouldn't the casino's steal online betting?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

The sooner racing gets off slots welfare the better because it was a short term infusion of cash, no way were the politicians going to go far this arrangement.

Racing should really be hoping the NJ online betting deal works out, that could open the door to full, legalized, internet wagering in every state, and that would grow the game.

I don't agree at all in regards to growing the game. IMO, it will actually hurt it because right now, they pretty much have the market cornered when it comes to 'legal' online wagering.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Scav

I don't agree at all in regards to growing the game. IMO, it will actually hurt it because right now, they pretty much have the market cornered when it comes to 'legal' online wagering.

I dont feel like people are not betting on horses and instead betting on casino games.

When 50% of the country has to go to the track or some OTB to bet I think its a much bigger loss than it would be if there is online betting on casino games.

Horse players bet on horses because its a game of skill and not just mathematics. I guess you could argue poker could be a main competitor but for years there was online poker play, dont think that affected racing at all.

[Crown@club]

Originally Posted by art vanderlay

I guess I should just take your advice and suck it up, but from someone who actually attends the races the costs add up, $10 admission $5 program $32 for two seats in the Clubhouse and a couple of bucks for the person who wipes your seat with a dirty rag.
Multiply that by 4 or 5 days per week. So will $6 more dollars be a deal breaker, maybe.

Don't forget the minimum for food & drink for those seats or are they included in the $32.

Has it been said that if you pay for a 4 seat table at Saratoga you have to pay for those minimums regardless if you have a full table or not. Ellis Park tried pulling that stunt this year.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by art vanderlay

I guess I should just take your advice and suck it up, but from someone who actually attends the races the costs add up, $10 admission $5 program $32 for two seats in the Clubhouse and a couple of bucks for the person who wipes your seat with a dirty rag.
Multiply that by 4 or 5 days per week. So will $6 more dollars be a deal breaker, maybe.

I must of missed this originally or it just didnt register, but where are they charging $16 seats on a daily basis?

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I must of missed this originally or it just didnt register, but where are they charging $16 seats on a daily basis?

Clubhouse seats at Saratoga on Fridays, Saturday and Sundays are $16.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You get that this ploy of making NYRA "profitable" on the balance sheets for 2014 is part of the plan to not "subsidize" NYRA right? Not to mention that it isnt in any way a subsidy, it is part of payment for the billion dollars of land the state now officially owns.

Having a philosophical argument about charging horsepalyers for extra's is a interesting topic. However in NYRA's case it isnt a apples to apples argument because there is real doubt about the true goals of the oversight board or at the very least the Chairman and several members. Plus virtually every racino is required by law not to charge admission. I mean who would hire Kay if the goal was to maximize profits at an entity that handles over 20% of the 10 billion or so bet in this country?

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, this is the issue that people should really be worried about, not a $2 increase in admission.

[freddymo]

http://www.drf.com/news/steven-crist...hould-get-gate

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by freddymo

http://www.drf.com/news/steven-crist...hould-get-gate

Crist may be right substantively, but isn't it a bit ironic for criticism to be coming from an entity that just instituted its "value added" DRF Plus package, so its loyal customers now have to pay to read news articles?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I know that, I also know that bettors/fans don't care (nor should they) what political maneuvering is going on behind the scenes. What fan is going to say, "well paying admission sucks, but I don't really mind because I know it is just the state trying to grab all the slots money?"

Enough on this from me, just going to see how it plays out.

So you are willing to ask why but because you dont like the messy political realities you just dismiss them? Discussing this particular situation involving NYRA without acknowledging the politics involved being a giant pink elephant in the room makes the conversation pointless.


I'd expect a little higher level of discourse here.

[Cannon Shell]

Let's not forget that that $16 for those seats and now the $8 clubhouse fee goes directly to the track. That $24 doesnt have to be cut up like $24 in wagers are.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So you are willing to ask why but because you dont like the messy political realities you just dismiss them? Discussing this particular situation involving NYRA without acknowledging the politics involved being a giant pink elephant in the room makes the conversation pointless.


I'd expect a little higher level of discourse here.

Will racing survive once all this slot money disappears?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Will racing survive once all this slot money disappears?

For the most part no.

Probably more in line with what steeplechase racing is now.