2014 admission hikes for Belmont, Saratoga: GA $5, Clubhouse $8

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Payson Dave

The spinners on give-away days at the Spa are going to be bummed...they don't contribute much to the handle but they sure enhance the attendance figs.

Good point. Attendance at NYRA is sort of a flawed stat because of spinners. NYRA's attendance figures are greatly impacted by potential Triple Crown on Belmont day and weekend spinners at Saratoga.

If Honor Code is undefeated and going for the Triple Crown and 135000 people show up for Belmont day the increase will be labeled a good idea. If we have another spotty TC season and a weak giveaway or two at Saratoga the idea will be labeled a failure.

[declansharbor]

Originally Posted by 3kings

I'm compairing it to other entertainment options. It has live entertainment and it charges a minimal entrance fee for it. Nightclubs with DJ's or bands charge a cover for entertainment while your local bar with no entertainment probably doesn't.

I think they are trying to draw a younger hipper more affluent crowd to the races. They know this not going to happen at Aquduct in the winter but might work at Belmont in the spring or fall. To do this they are trying to price out some of the undesirables, stoopers, unwashed people etc.... I know this is a stereotype but when I try to bring new people to the races this is often the first thing I hear.

I know I'm only one person, but this is what keeps me betting from my recliner. The dregs of society and stench of losing at OTB's keeps me far away, and I'll only visit a top tier track once in a blue moon and that almost always seems to be on vacation.

My gambling friends who know little to nothing about horse racing sometimes ask me (crazy i know) for a play or two. Rest assured, they always have a snarky comment to me about the people that visit these betting outlets and joke about how I'll one day be one of these guys lol. Needless to say, there's a stigma that goes along with horse players. Right or wrong, it's there, and I think it prevents some of the newbie generation from jumping in feet first.

I've also wondered what racetracks would look like if they followed the NFL's footsteps in making home viewership so much more enjoyable than year's past. Apples and oranges in comparison to product, just something that crosses my mind from time to time.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Outside of professional sports perhaps

That hasn't been my experience.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Good point. Attendance at NYRA is sort of a flawed stat because of spinners. NYRA's attendance figures are greatly impacted by potential Triple Crown on Belmont day and weekend spinners at Saratoga.

If Honor Code is undefeated and going for the Triple Crown and 135000 people show up for Belmont day the increase will be labeled a good idea. If we have another spotty TC season and a weak giveaway or two at Saratoga the idea will be labeled a failure.

Isnt this all about dressing up NYRA so it is more attractive to a potential buyer?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by declansharbor

I know I'm only one person, but this is what keeps me betting from my recliner. The dregs of society and stench of losing at OTB's keeps me far away, and I'll only visit a top tier track once in a blue moon and that almost always seems to be on vacation.

My gambling friends who know little to nothing about horse racing sometimes ask me (crazy i know) for a play or two. Rest assured, they always have a snarky comment to me about the people that visit these betting outlets and joke about how I'll one day be one of these guys lol. Needless to say, there's a stigma that goes along with horse players. Right or wrong, it's there, and I think it prevents some of the newbie generation from jumping in feet first.

I've also wondered what racetracks would look like if they followed the NFL's footsteps in making home viewership so much more enjoyable than year's past. Apples and oranges in comparison to product, just something that crosses my mind from time to time.

This really hits home for me. I love this game more than almost anything, but I'm often embarrassed to tell people I'm a horseplayer because I'll get dirty looks or jokes about ticket pickers/bums in smelly OTB's and a general lack of respect for a craft I work really hard at. No one would bat an eye if I said I was a poker player, in fact most would probably think it's cool. I don't know how to fix it, but betting on horses has a major image problem and is just about the least sexy game in the world in the eyes of most people my age and younger. It's incredibly far from the truth, but perception is reality in many respects.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Isnt this all about dressing up NYRA so it is more attractive to a potential buyer?

It is all about Cuomo trying to find a way to cast NYRA off on its own after his coup of seizing NYRA properties to build his casinos while taking away the slots money so he and his criminal cronies can frivolously spend more money all while claiming that the horse racing industry can stand on its own feet to try to avoid the negative backlash of stripping the casino money.

Cuomo does not care what happens to the industry as long as he can get rid of it without egg on his face. He is an embarrassment to this State.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by pointman

It is all about Cuomo trying to find a way to cast NYRA off on its own after his coup of seizing NYRA properties to build his casinos while taking away the slots money so he and his criminal cronies can frivolously spend more money all while claiming that the horse racing industry can stand on its own feet to try to avoid the negative backlash of stripping the casino money.

Cuomo does not care what happens to the industry as long as he can get rid of it without egg on his face. He is an embarrassment to this State.

While I agree with the spirit of the post I think this is less nefarious. If you are looking to sell something you dress it up. To me this has nothing to do with it being a Premier product like some think and being worth more. I think its fair to charge whatever the market will bare and I think its fine to earn. I think neither is at work here.. To me this is window dressing pure and simple

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

That hasn't been my experience.

You dont live in NY.

It costs $280 for a decent seat at a Knicks game. They kinda suck. Prices havent gone down here, ever.

What about when NFL teams make you buy preseason games at full cost if you are a season ticket holder? Do they give you a break if the team stinks?

What about "premium pricing", making you pay more for games against better teams?

What about when the Knicks forced season ticket holders to also buy season tickets to the WNBA team as well?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Isnt this all about dressing up NYRA so it is more attractive to a potential buyer?

In theory.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You dont live in NY.

It costs $280 for a decent seat at a Knicks game. They kinda suck. Prices havent gone down here, ever.

What about when NFL teams make you buy preseason games at full cost if you are a season ticket holder? Do they give you a break if the team stinks?

What about "premium pricing", making you pay more for games against better teams?

What about when the Knicks forced season ticket holders to also buy season tickets to the WNBA team as well?

Don't forget about seat license fees. Even the Jets had the noggins to force that crap on their fans.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

In theory.

I can see an overseas bookmaking company buying NYRA. They can stand losing money while they hope America becomes more open to sports betting. Didn't Betfair do this with TVG? The real estate (not literally) is worth a lot, considering just how much money is wagered at 11/10 illegally.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

While I agree with the spirit of the post I think this is less nefarious. If you are looking to sell something you dress it up. To me this has nothing to do with it being a Premier product like some think and being worth more. I think its fair to charge whatever the market will bare and I think its fine to earn. I think neither is at work here.. To me this is window dressing pure and simple

NYRA isnt going to be sold. They are looking to put management back into private hands but the land is now the states and who in their right mind would pay to manage NYRA with no slot revenues, no land ownership, political instability, an unknown decision concerning OTB's in NYC, properties in need of repair, massive pension liabilities, etc.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I can see an overseas bookmaking company buying NYRA. They can stand losing money while they hope America becomes more open to sports betting. Didn't Betfair do this with TVG? The real estate (not literally) is worth a lot, considering just how much money is wagered at 11/10 illegally.

I dont believe that the land is for sale.

Why would you believe that if sports betting comes to pass that the state will just hand it over to NYRA?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You dont live in NY.

It costs $280 for a decent seat at a Knicks game. They kinda suck. Prices havent gone down here, ever.

What about when NFL teams make you buy preseason games at full cost if you are a season ticket holder? Do they give you a break if the team stinks?

What about "premium pricing", making you pay more for games against better teams?

What about when the Knicks forced season ticket holders to also buy season tickets to the WNBA team as well?

I didn't realize you were specifying New York. I love visiting, but I would NEVER live there.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I didn't realize you were specifying New York. I love visiting, but I would NEVER live there.

I thought we were discussing the NY market. Teams here seem to raise prices every year regardless and there havent been many parades.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I dont believe that the land is for sale.

Why would you believe that if sports betting comes to pass that the state will just hand it over to NYRA?

Not talking about the physical land.. Talking about the gambling landscape and the potential to be the the first ones to operate a book in NYC

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Not talking about the physical land.. Talking about the gambling landscape and the potential to be the the first ones to operate a book in NYC

I doubt that being associated with NYRA will give them a leg up. Sports betting isnt close right now either. NJ keeps losing in court and that is with a sponsor for the bill and support from the state.

[randallscott35]

I have less problem increasing it for Saratoga than for Belmont....It should be tiered. Admission for AQ should be free.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I thought we were discussing the NY market. Teams here seem to raise prices every year regardless and there havent been many parades.

New York City has a population 28 times larger than Pittsburgh.

Even though Pittsburgh has better sports teams in every major sport that doesn't involve large black men running over hardwood, it would stand to reason that ticket prices should be much higher in NYC than Pittsburgh.

There's only so much good seating at a major sporting event. I've been to Belmont Park on a major racing day before, it was the opposite of crowded. It was extremely comfortable.

How many racino's charge admission?

The people who are saying "the admission prices were the same over 100 years ago at NY tracks" are technically correct ... but that was an entirely different game. You had a bunch of on-site bookmakers working on razor thin margins, and you could pick and choose the best deals. Adjusted for inflation, "Plungers" bet today's equivalent of hundreds of thousands of dollars on a single race, sometimes.

You can gauge on admission when the takeout is about 1% and sometimes flirting with positive expectation, instead of 16%

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I thought we were discussing the NY market. Teams here seem to raise prices every year regardless and there havent been many parades.

But tickets keep selling, totally different thing. Obviously the prices are market driven. We'll see if that works at the track. The times I've been to Belmont on non-Belmont Stakes days, I was nearly run over by a few tumbleweeds.

There is a pretty good secondary market for sports tickets in New York. That means tickets could very well be under priced. That isn't remotely close to true for horse racing.