Derby Trail Forums

Go Back   Derby Trail Forums > Stakes Archive
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-14-2021, 02:20 AM
Kasept's Avatar
Kasept Kasept is offline
Steve Byk
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greenwich, NY
Posts: 42,548
Default Weekend Stakes Beyers

WO Autumn S (G2): Mighty Heart 91 (Dramedy) J. Carroll/P. Husbands
WO Bessarabian S (G2): Lady Speightspeare 95 (Speightstown) R. Attfield/E. Wilson
WO Maple Leaf S (G3): Skygaze 92 (American Pharoah) M. Casse/P. Husbands

CD Dream Supreme S: Bell's the One 91 (Majesticperfection) N. Pessin/C. Lanerie

DMR Bob Hope S (G3): Messier 86 (Empire Maker) B. Baffert/F. Prat
DMR Desi Arnaz S: Eda 83 (Munnings) B. Baffert/F. Prat

AQU Winter Memories S: Plum Ali 88 (First Samurai) C. Clement/M. Franco
AQU Artie Schiller S: Mandate 94 (Blame) R. Johnston/A. Wolfsont

LRL Smart Halo S: Buy the Best 74 (Tapiture) C. Lynch/J. Rodriguez
LRL James F. Lewis III S: Local Motive 71 (Divining Rod) J. Salzman/J. Acosta
LRL Thirty Eight Go Go S: Miss Leslie 82 (Paynter) C. Gonzalez/A. Cruz

DED Delta Mile S: Flash of Mischief 90 (Into Mischief) K. Broberg/T. Thornton
DED Treasure Chest S: Kela's Turn 80 (Kela) H. Guillory/A. Birzer

RP Slide Show S: Hits Pricey Legacy 68 (Den's Legacy) C. TroutJ. Alvarez
RP Don C. McNeill S: Rowdy Rascal 67 (Den's Legacy) B. Caster/F. Manrrique
RP Silver Goblin S: Fast Breakin Cash 76 (Yes It's True) C. Trout/R. Eramia

CT My Sister Pearl S: Star of Night 74 (Creative Cause) J. Runco/A. Bocachica

MVR Ohio Debutante H: Diva Power 61 (Global Power) G. Johnson/L. Batista

HAW Lightning Jet S: W W Cookie Monster 88 (Ghaaleb) S. Becker/V. Santiago
HAW Powerless S: Racetothefinish 80 (Race Day) S. Becker/V. Santiago

GG Golden Nugget S: Dr Pescado 54 (Fullbridled) F. Rondan/P. Terrero
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad
A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine
Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans

Last edited by Kasept : 11-15-2021 at 09:35 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-14-2021, 08:00 AM
freddymo freddymo is offline
Belmont Park
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,083
Default

Mandate DaMonster... Aqueduct is going to be great this winter. I think when I go up I want to be a Vet's agent. I go around from barn to barn hawking my guy's services.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-14-2021, 08:01 AM
Dahoss Dahoss is offline
Keeneland
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,295
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by freddymo View Post
Mandate DaMonster... Aqueduct is going to be great this winter. I think when I go up I want to be a Vet's agent. I go around from barn to barn hawking my guy's services.
How about the pick 5 getting hit? Amazing!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-14-2021, 08:04 AM
Dahoss Dahoss is offline
Keeneland
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,295
Default

How about Strategic Bird at Gulfstream in the 6th?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-14-2021, 09:02 AM
Kasept's Avatar
Kasept Kasept is offline
Steve Byk
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greenwich, NY
Posts: 42,548
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahoss View Post
How about Strategic Bird at Gulfstream in the 6th?
79
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad
A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine
Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-14-2021, 12:03 PM
freddymo freddymo is offline
Belmont Park
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,083
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by freddymo View Post
Mandate DaMonster... Aqueduct is going to be great this winter. I think when I go up I want to be a Vet's agent. I go around from barn to barn hawking my guy's services.
Incredible unless you are an SFH(Super****inHorse)1000 sales guy... the winner of the last unrealistic but bad horses win bad races
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-14-2021, 12:18 PM
Kasept's Avatar
Kasept Kasept is offline
Steve Byk
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greenwich, NY
Posts: 42,548
Default





__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad
A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine
Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-14-2021, 04:26 PM
Dahoss Dahoss is offline
Keeneland
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,295
Default

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-14-2021, 05:26 PM
freddymo freddymo is offline
Belmont Park
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,083
Default

Jerry must have had this one not Jerry Brown but Jerry the SFH 1000 salesmen
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-14-2021, 10:13 PM
blackthroatedwind blackthroatedwind is offline
Jerome Park
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 9,931
Default

The horse was utterly impossible no matter how you look at it....and that includes sheets players. He likely freaked on the soft turf. There's no real explanation....other than a ridiculous redboard.
__________________
Just more nebulous nonsense from BBB
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-15-2021, 05:34 AM
Kasept's Avatar
Kasept Kasept is offline
Steve Byk
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greenwich, NY
Posts: 42,548
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind View Post
The horse was utterly impossible no matter how you look at it....and that includes sheets players. He likely freaked on the soft turf. There's no real explanation....other than a ridiculous redboard.
The soft turf answer makes a lot of sense. The point of showing the TG's was that the horse had moved into range of contention last time, as opposed to Foster Brooks on here claiming undetectable drugs.

Here's another piece from TG.. Sire Profile (TGI = Thoro-Graph Index, average fig of progeny by sire at age 2, 3, 4, 5+). Blame progeny keep improving with age (15.5, 11.25, 9.5. 9.25) and this gelding is late in his 4yo year, about to turn 5.

__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad
A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine
Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-15-2021, 05:36 AM
Kasept's Avatar
Kasept Kasept is offline
Steve Byk
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greenwich, NY
Posts: 42,548
Default

Here's Mandate's full PP's as well.. One interesting side note to the effort that hasn't been discussed is that it came without Lasix, his first start ever without it.

__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad
A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine
Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-15-2021, 06:05 AM
Kasept's Avatar
Kasept Kasept is offline
Steve Byk
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greenwich, NY
Posts: 42,548
Default

WO Autumn S (G2): Mighty Heart 91 (Dramedy) J. Carroll/P. Husbands

AQU Winter Memories S: Plum Ali 88 (First Samurai) C. Clement/M. Franco

DMR Bob Hope S (G3): Messier - (Empire Maker) B. Baffert/F. Prat

HAW Lightning Jet S: W W Cookie Monster - (Ghaaleb) S. Becker/V. Santiago
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad
A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine
Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-15-2021, 06:50 AM
freddymo freddymo is offline
Belmont Park
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,083
Default

Steve, have a heart. Cheating happens. The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. That normally happens after you hit rock bottom, like when your wife forgets to buy the Baileys Irish Cream for your morning coffee and you berate her for an hour(not that I have ever done that) or when some ridiculous horse freaks not just wins but runs extraordinary.

Last edited by freddymo : 11-15-2021 at 07:06 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-15-2021, 06:54 AM
freddymo freddymo is offline
Belmont Park
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,083
Default

30 BSF points in 10 weeks. I guess the dopes that trained him previously just didn't have the horsemanship to unlock his scary talent.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-15-2021, 07:48 AM
Dahoss Dahoss is offline
Keeneland
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,295
Default

I’m not saying it was something undetectable but he was about as impossible a horse going in as I have ever seen. 15 years ago he would’ve been 200-1. Even Aragona had him 50-1 ML and he rarely does that.

Worth noting who the owner is. Never heard of the trainer but the owner doesn’t exactly use hay and oats guys in Canada.

All in all I think the course was the reason he won. But that was some kind of move up for a horse who struggled in claiming races not too long ago.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-15-2021, 07:52 AM
Kasept's Avatar
Kasept Kasept is offline
Steve Byk
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greenwich, NY
Posts: 42,548
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by freddymo View Post
30 BSF points in 10 weeks. I guess the dopes that trained him previously just didn't have the horsemanship to unlock his scary talent.
Just pathetic. You're insulting a career horseman who just enjoyed the biggest win of his life. This is a low profile guy born into the game and has worked for Schickedanz forever.
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad
A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine
Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-15-2021, 08:02 AM
freddymo freddymo is offline
Belmont Park
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,083
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept View Post
Just pathetic. You're insulting a career horseman who just enjoyed the biggest win of his life. This is a low profile guy born into the game and has worked for Schickedanz forever.
Yep, and it's great to see Tom Morley finally applying all of those skills he acquired toiling in the Godolphin education system. Great to see folks rewarded. Another feel-good story, that barn has been really coming together nicely of late.
While I can be two sheets into the wind regularly, that sheet story really told the tale of that tail
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-15-2021, 08:27 AM
blackthroatedwind blackthroatedwind is offline
Jerome Park
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 9,931
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept View Post
The soft turf answer makes a lot of sense. The point of showing the TG's was that the horse had moved into range of contention last time, as opposed to Foster Brooks on here claiming undetectable drugs.

Here's another piece from TG.. Sire Profile (TGI = Thoro-Graph Index, average fig of progeny by sire at age 2, 3, 4, 5+). Blame progeny keep improving with age (15.5, 11.25, 9.5. 9.25) and this gelding is late in his 4yo year, about to turn 5.

Steve, I'm not sure why you feel a need to exhaustively redboard an impossible horse. The problem with your logic is he didn't sneak into this win, get a great trip and take advantage of poor ones by others, as he had easily the toughest trip of anyone in the race, and drew off to a career defining victory in his second start for this trainer, and not that long after being claimed for $25K from Todd Pletcher.

Maybe he freaked on a soft turf. It certainly wouldn't be the first time that has happened. His three prior races on courses listed as good weren't strong, even arguably worse than his firm turf efforts, but a softer course like the one on Saturday may well have been much different and to his liking. Regardless, this is an inexplicable effort. To each their own, but I don't believe there is any logical handicapping argument for him, even after the race. Doesn't mean anything nefarious happened. Sometimes racing produces weird results. Sometimes late season turf courses are friendlier to different horses than summertime courses. Who knows.
__________________
Just more nebulous nonsense from BBB
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-15-2021, 09:01 AM
Kasept's Avatar
Kasept Kasept is offline
Steve Byk
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greenwich, NY
Posts: 42,548
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind View Post
Steve, I'm not sure why you feel a need to exhaustively redboard an impossible horse. The problem with your logic is he didn't sneak into this win, get a great trip and take advantage of poor ones by others, as he had easily the toughest trip of anyone in the race, and drew off to a career defining victory in his second start for this trainer, and not that long after being claimed for $25K from Todd Pletcher.

Maybe he freaked on a soft turf. It certainly wouldn't be the first time that has happened. His three prior races on courses listed as good weren't strong, even arguably worse than his firm turf efforts, but a softer course like the one on Saturday may well have been much different and to his liking. Regardless, this is an inexplicable effort. To each their own, but I don't believe there is any logical handicapping argument for him, even after the race. Doesn't mean anything nefarious happened. Sometimes racing produces weird results. Sometimes late season turf courses are friendlier to different horses than summertime courses. Who knows.
Not redboarding anything. Just trying to provide what felt like interesting context to elements of a surprising winner. Like you explaining the soft-ish turf being a logical factor.
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad
A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine
Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.