Denis of Cork's stock on the rise - Page 3

miraja2 · #41 03-17-2008, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I have to say,it is amazing that any horse associated with IGGY PUGLISI can be considered a contender for the Kentucky Derby.He is just the exercise rider,but still,it's weird.What is he 0 FOR 80 since returning from the injury? Even Enriquez caught one last night.

In the past I haven't had a lot of success tossing horses based on who their exercise rider is. I don't know why that would be, because it seems like such a sound handicapping strategy, but for whatever reason, it just hasn't ever really worked for me.

jcs11204 · #42 03-17-2008, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

You don't understand the question being asked.. When you out with a statement that "FOY will be a key race" you need to explain or at least understand what that means. What about the race will make it an event that will produce big return performances from the horses behind the principal runners (Cool Coal Man/Elysium Fields)?

You already had Anak Nakal come back from the Fountain and run like crap Saturday. What happens from the also-rans from the FOY is what produces a 'key' race. Court Vision, Z Humor, Golden Spikes, Halo Najib, Kentucky Bear, Adriano etc. need to come back with performances that enhance the reputation of the two finishers that separated themselves from the rest of that field. The question that needs specifics to be answered, is what is it about the Fountain of Youth that might make it a 'key' race.

If you can't answer with specifics, it's OK. You said you like the horses that will be running back from it to do well. You don't have a reason... you just do. You also don't appear anxious to learn the nuances of this type of
discussion either.

you are correct, i am wrong... i should have said i like the top 3 a lot then gave my reassons why i like them, its not a key race. and yes i am anxious to learn and i will try to tone it down a little

jcs11204 · #43 03-17-2008, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Who are the top horses then? Isn't Denis of Cork one of them. . .

i dont think he is.... but a lot of ppl here seem to think so

Danzig · #44 03-17-2008, 08:24 PM

denis of cork has been getting more attention as horses he has beaten have since gone on to win other stakes races. the two horses who finished second and third in the southwest to Denis have now won the rebel and winstar derby. it would be safe to say that the southwest has turned into a key race, since that field has since produced winners.

also, jcs, the owner and trainer of denis of cork have decided to run him only once more pre-derby, as they have done their homework and feel he is set to peak in two races time-which is now the ky derby on his schedule, rather than the arkansas derby.

jcs11204 · #45 03-17-2008, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

denis of cork has been getting more attention as horses he has beaten have since gone on to win other stakes races. the two horses who finished second and third in the southwest to Denis have now won the rebel and winstar derby. it would be safe to say that the southwest has turned into a key race, since that field has since produced winners.

also, jcs, the owner and trainer of denis of cork have decided to run him only once more pre-derby, as they have done their homework and feel he is set to peak in two races time-which is now the ky derby on his schedule, rather than the arkansas derby.

i realize that....
i just dont like dennis of cork, i know i wont be using him... also feel he has little shot to win the the wood. maybe place but not win

hockey2315 · #46 03-17-2008, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcs11204

i realize that....
i just dont like dennis of cork, i know i wont be using him... also feel he has little shot to win the the wood. maybe place but not win

can you explain why you don't like him please?

jcs11204 · #47 03-17-2008, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

can you explain why you don't like him please?

i really dont know, i actually bet him to win and place last time out and cashed on him... just as far as the derby i dont like him

dont like his running style, dont think he can get the distance, dont like his trainer....

hockey2315 · #48 03-17-2008, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcs11204

i really dont know, i actually bet him to win and place last time out and cashed on him... just as far as the derby i dont like him

dont like his running style, dont think he can get the distance, dont like his trainer....

great reasoning. . . what's wrong with his running style? why can't he get the distance? what about his trainer don't you like?

Danzig · #49 03-17-2008, 09:03 PM

i don't like kent desormeuax much...didn't keep me from betting on (and winning with) loose leaf at 11-1 last june.

also, denis' trainer expects him to regress in the wood, and then run his best in the derby-which is why they're going that route.
it may be a mistake to discount him, since, unlike many others, horses he has defeated have gone on to win their next out.

i'm not sure yet who my derby pick will be, but i will consider all who make the field when the time comes.

miraja2 · #50 03-17-2008, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcs11204

i really dont know, i actually bet him to win and place last time out and cashed on him... just as far as the derby i dont like him

dont like his running style, dont think he can get the distance, dont like his trainer....

It is of course impossible to know which horses will like 10f before they attempt it, but in my opinion, this horse looks like one who is more likely than most to handle that distance. His sire (Harlan's Holiday) was a pretty decent two-turn horse who is apparently turning out to be a better sire than many thought he would be. Harlans Holiday's dam-side pedigree is loaded with stamina (Affirmed, Honest Pleasure, and of course, Princequillo) so there is every reason to think that he could be a decent stamina influence as a sire.
Denis of Cork's dam's sire is KD and BCC winning Unbridled (AWD: 7.8) so there isn't really a reason to dismiss him because of that side either.

As for his running style, I haven't seen anything there which would disqualify him from being a 10f horse either.

He might turn out to simply not be very good, but I don't think it is probable that distance limitations will be his biggest problem.

jcs11204 · #51 03-18-2008, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

It is of course impossible to know which horses will like 10f before they attempt it, but in my opinion, this horse looks like one who is more likely than most to handle that distance. His sire (Harlan's Holiday) was a pretty decent two-turn horse who is apparently turning out to be a better sire than many thought he would be. Harlans Holiday's dam-side pedigree is loaded with stamina (Affirmed, Honest Pleasure, and of course, Princequillo) so there is every reason to think that he could be a decent stamina influence as a sire.
Denis of Cork's dam's sire is KD and BCC winning Unbridled (AWD: 7.8) so there isn't really a reason to dismiss him because of that side either.

As for his running style, I haven't seen anything there which would disqualify him from being a 10f horse either.

He might turn out to simply not be very good, but I don't think it is probable that distance limitations will be his biggest problem.

i prefer a more speedy, tactical type

SCUDSBROTHER · #52 03-18-2008, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

In the past I haven't had a lot of success tossing horses based on who their exercise rider is. I don't know why that would be, because it seems like such a sound handicapping strategy, but for whatever reason, it just hasn't ever really worked for me.

I haven't tried that strategy,and don't ever intend do.It's just a weird coupling(that's all.)Iggy can't win,and Georgie seems to only want to win.It's actually pretty cool(I guess.)

wac · #53 03-19-2008, 09:51 PM

I know a couple of you guys on here have dennis in the 1st pool at 46-1 but only for $10

but oh well would still love to see him win. I like this horse to be honest and i was alwyas a harlan holiday fan. Just always liked the horse as he seemed pretty honest and i like the way the horse moves. Just seems very powerful. I dont know maybe its just a horse crush...

Pedigree Ann · #54 03-20-2008, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

. . why can't he get the distance? ?

It's called 'fitness'. DoC will have had 4 starts lifetime going into the Derby and the last horse who did that was Exterminator, who had been purchased as a work horse for the better fancied Sun Briar and was substituted at the last minute when SB came up lame. And frankly, the best 3yos were pointed to the Belmont more than the Ky Derby in those days (Man o' War skipped it, using the Preakness for a prep race).

Lacking a foundation of race fitness, even so talented a horse as Curlin couldn't win the Kentucky Derby. Is Denis of Cork so much better than these other horses that he can manage what Curlin couldn't?

SniperSB23 · #55 03-20-2008, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Lacking a foundation of race fitness, even so talented a horse as Curlin couldn't win the Kentucky Derby. Is Denis of Cork so much better than these other horses that he can manage what Curlin couldn't?

No, but I don't see a Street Sense or Hard Spun in this field to worry about and there is no guarantee he'll draw a bad post like Curlin did. Is there any horse that will actually be going into the Derby this year that will be fast, fit, and free of question marks?

Payson Dave · #56 03-20-2008, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

No, but I don't see a Street Sense or Hard Spun in this field to worry about and there is no guarantee he'll draw a bad post like Curlin did. Is there any horse that will actually be going into the Derby this year that will be fast, fit, and free of question marks?

Just in case that was not a rhetorical question....Not that I see so far!

SniperSB23 · #57 03-20-2008, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Payson Dave

Just in case that was not a rhetorical question....Not that I see so far!

Me either. Pyro is the closest but I'm still not convinced he qualifies as fast. At the most that is one horse that fits those qualification which I think it would be completely foolish to dismiss a horse as having no chance cause of lack of conditioning when there is really only at most one fast, fit, question mark free horse out there. Historical rules should all be thrown out the window. It's a new game.

hockey2315 · #58 03-20-2008, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

It's called 'fitness'. DoC will have had 4 starts lifetime going into the Derby and the last horse who did that was Exterminator, who had been purchased as a work horse for the better fancied Sun Briar and was substituted at the last minute when SB came up lame. And frankly, the best 3yos were pointed to the Belmont more than the Ky Derby in those days (Man o' War skipped it, using the Preakness for a prep race).

Lacking a foundation of race fitness, even so talented a horse as Curlin couldn't win the Kentucky Derby. Is Denis of Cork so much better than these other horses that he can manage what Curlin couldn't?

Comparing Denis to Curlin is pretty much a worthless comparison. Different horses, different trips, etc... And Curlin did get 3rd behind two horses that seem to be better than anyone from this crop. Denis has a little 2 year old foundation so I'm not too worried about his fitness level.

Rupert Pupkin · #59 03-20-2008, 12:42 PM

Denis is my Derby pick. I'm still sick that we didn't buy him at the Barrett's sale last year.

Danzig · #60 03-20-2008, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

It's called 'fitness'. DoC will have had 4 starts lifetime going into the Derby and the last horse who did that was Exterminator, who had been purchased as a work horse for the better fancied Sun Briar and was substituted at the last minute when SB came up lame. And frankly, the best 3yos were pointed to the Belmont more than the Ky Derby in those days (Man o' War skipped it, using the Preakness for a prep race).

Lacking a foundation of race fitness, even so talented a horse as Curlin couldn't win the Kentucky Derby. Is Denis of Cork so much better than these other horses that he can manage what Curlin couldn't?

it's a whole new game. i tossed barbaro, even tho i kept coming back to him, knowing full well he was the best of the bunch--all because of the 'history' of running in the derby so long after a previous race. those things no longer apply, none of the horses these days are particularly seasoned.