2/26 (GP): Fountain of Youth, Hutcheson, Davona Dale (G2's) - Page 3

#41 02-25-2011, 11:31 AM

You definitely don't want horses to face any unneeded adversity. It's not like they are real athletes anymore. They sure are pretty to look at though. And that's the priority.

Indian Charlie · #42 02-25-2011, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

You definitely don't want horses to face any unneeded adversity. It's not like they are real athletes anymore. They sure are pretty to look at though. And that's the priority.

Well, really, the highlight of any horsies life is when they get their cherry popped.

It's really very exciting! You can almost say it's the climax of their career.

Kasept · #43 02-25-2011, 12:17 PM

Fountain of Youth PP's

Kasept · #44 02-25-2011, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

You definitely don't want horses to face any unneeded adversity. It's not like they are real athletes anymore. They sure are pretty to look at though. And that's the priority.

I don't know Coach... Feels like this would be a justifiable and judicious move. By going to Gotham you get the added benefit of a read on the horse at 2 turns. And as Nick said, he can't win this Hutch. All he can do is burn up and waste a start. Why not put yourself in position to succeed AND learn something you need to know about the horse at the same time?

Betsy · #45 02-25-2011, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

Kiaran McLaughlin on ATR: May scratch CROSSBOW from Saturday's Hutcheson in favor of start in Gotham. Decision later today..

I don't think he has much of a shot in either. He's not fast enough for these sprinters in the Hutch (unless he runs back to his debut when he showed huge speed) and he is almost certainly not a two-turn horse. I love his sire, so I'd like him to be a good one, but I think he's somewhat overrated.

#46 02-25-2011, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

I don't know Coach... Feels like this would be a justifiable and judicious move. By going to Gotham you get the added benefit of a read on the horse at 2 turns. And as Nick said, he can't win this Hutch. All he can do is burn up and waste a start. Why not put yourself in position to succeed AND learn something you need to know about the horse at the same time?

Because losing is not the end of the world? Sometimes it can be extremely beneficial, especially in the development of a young athlete.

Plus owners and trainers need to keep their word. When you commit to a race stick with it. Don't be a b.itch and duck because things didn't go your way.

Betsy · #47 02-25-2011, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

Yup.. And the preponderance of speed signed on.

That makes me wonder why they tried to throttle his speed in his maiden victory. The fact that they entered him in the Hutch tells me (not that I needed any confirmation of it) that they don't think of him as anything more than a sprinter.....so now changing course ? I really don't think it will matter, but I'd prefer that they let him come out of the gate going blue blazes and see if he can hold on. He at least showed some guts in his debut.

Betsy · #48 02-25-2011, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

I don't know Coach... Feels like this would be a justifiable and judicious move. By going to Gotham you get the added benefit of a read on the horse at 2 turns. And as Nick said, he can't win this Hutch. All he can do is burn up and waste a start. Why not put yourself in position to succeed AND learn something you need to know about the horse at the same time?

But I don't see what they'd be learning. They clearly don't think he can rate or else they wouldn't think of scratching him......and with his damsire and his speed, there's no way he's getting two turns. If they wanted to learn about this horse, they wouldn't have entered him in the Hutch in the first place. I don't think it's a good idea to point a horse for so long to one race and then just shift gears.

my miss storm cat · #49 02-25-2011, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

I'm only trying to be nice and let her know her horse has no shot.

It's the way in which it was said but let's just drop it now, okay?

knickslions2 · #50 02-25-2011, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

I don't know Coach... Feels like this would be a justifiable and judicious move. By going to Gotham you get the added benefit of a read on the horse at 2 turns. And as Nick said, he can't win this Hutch. All he can do is burn up and waste a start. Why not put yourself in position to succeed AND learn something you need to know about the horse at the same time?

Steve who are your choices in these three? I have a big wad of cash ready for some mountaineer otb action tomorrow and am just starting to handicap.

Bogey · #51 02-25-2011, 01:50 PM

2nd Place finisher in Oh Carole's Alw win (Funny Sunny) just demolished the field at 4/5 in Race 4 today (2/25/11).

Kasept · #52 02-25-2011, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betsy

But I don't see what they'd be learning. They clearly don't think he can rate or else they wouldn't think of scratching him......and with his damsire and his speed, there's no way he's getting two turns. If they wanted to learn about this horse, they wouldn't have entered him in the Hutch in the first place. I don't think it's a good idea to point a horse for so long to one race and then just shift gears.

They might learn what Kiaran McLaughlin said he's interested in learning.. what kind of horse this might be long term. Rating has nothing really to do with this situation. If you mean 'take back', that's a different scenario. They're drawn on the rail going 7f. It's a death sentence for him to be hard used early to gain position before the gap and then gut out another 5/8's. It's a hopeless draw and situation in a race that has too much speed.

And point a horse for 'so long'? It's been 3 weeks. It's better to run here and finish 7th than wait a week and try running an extra 300 yards? It's hardly imperitive that Crossbow run in the Hutcheson. Sophs at this trime of year have lots of options and staying fluid can be a positive. He'll be half the price in the Gotham (Noms) that he'd be in this Hutch. His damsire is Forest Wildcat so he's 'definitely not' getting two turns? Another Stonerside product out of a Forest Wildcat mare that comes to mind, Texas Wildcatter (Monarchos), was beaten a nose by Visionaire in... as it happens... the Gotham. The idea with a horse like this is to find spots to get graded black type. They're far more like to hit the board with him in the Gotham than in the Hutcheson.

blackthroatedwind · #53 02-25-2011, 02:12 PM

And, when he shows that he can't go long, he can still turn back to 7F for the Bay Shore on Wood Day five weeks later.

He has NO chance in the Hutcheson. It's a no lose switch. Plus, what killers are pointing for the Gotham?

Betsy · #54 02-25-2011, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

And, when he shows that he can't go long, he can still turn back to 7F for the Bay Shore on Wood Day five weeks later.

He has NO chance in the Hutcheson. It's a no lose switch. Plus, what killers are pointing for the Gotham?

No chance because he's not good enough or because he's a speed horse? I don't think he's good enough for either, so I guess it really doesn't matter. I do think he has some guts, so I would have taken my chances in the Hutch. He didn't fold in his debut, maybe he'd do ok in that race.

I'm sure there are no killers in the Gotham (well, one of my favs is running, but still), but I don't think he wants to run one step past 6 furlongs. I know he won last out at 7, but instead of pulling away from Sovereign Default, he almost lost that race.

randallscott35 · #55 02-25-2011, 04:37 PM

Hope he doesn't draw far outside in the Gotham, then we may not see him till the Wood.

Betsy · #56 02-25-2011, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

They might learn what Kiaran McLaughlin said he's interested in learning.. what kind of horse this might be long term. Rating has nothing really to do with this situation. If you mean 'take back', that's a different scenario. They're drawn on the rail going 7f. It's a death sentence for him to be hard used early to gain position before the gap and then gut out another 5/8's. It's a hopeless draw and situation in a race that has too much speed.

And point a horse for 'so long'? It's been 3 weeks. It's better to run here and finish 7th than wait a week and try running an extra 300 yards? It's hardly imperitive that Crossbow run in the Hutcheson. Sophs at this trime of year have lots of options and staying fluid can be a positive. He'll be half the price in the Gotham (Noms) that he'd be in this Hutch. His damsire is Forest Wildcat so he's 'definitely not' getting two turns? Another Stonerside product out of a Forest Wildcat mare that comes to mind, Texas Wildcatter (Monarchos), was beaten a nose by Visionaire in... as it happens... the Gotham. The idea with a horse like this is to find spots to get graded black type. They're far more like to hit the board with him in the Gotham than in the Hutcheson.

Steve, if they wanted to learn more about him, they never would have entered him in the Hutch in the first place. No, this is a desperation move pure and simple. My point about rating was that he ran his best race in his debut, when the jock (stupidly) had him set an insane pace along with Escort. Granted, his Beyer wasn't all that great, but his subsequent races when he set softer fractions (granted, he dueled with Sovereign Default in his last) have not been as good. I think they need to let him wing it and take their chances, regardless of what race he's in. It's his pedigree and running style as much as anything else - and his performance, frankly - that makes me think he's a pure sprinter. If he gets two turns in the Gotham, it will be because he got clear and set a slow pace or the race just falls apart.

Speaking of pace, does it look like Soldat is the sole speed in the FOY?

randallscott35 · #57 02-25-2011, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

And, when he shows that he can't go long, he can still turn back to 7F for the Bay Shore on Wood Day five weeks later.

He has NO chance in the Hutcheson. It's a no lose switch. Plus, what killers are pointing for the Gotham?

I'm ashamed to say I think Toby's Corner is a pretty nice horse...I know I am in the minority.