Secret Oath

Originally Posted by freddymo

Yep.

Save, the Big A who is a wonderful person, all of Andy's partners have raised their game and become better at their job. While in a sick demented way I would love to see you and Andy do A show, I am not sure either of you or the audience would get much out of it save the entertainment value. We have enough gimmicks in racing.

Why would it be a gimmick Freddy? We're both good handicappers. I assume if pitted against each other we'd get even better.

One thing I think both Andy an I have in common is to teach rather than tout.

Explain how we got to the selections.

I think that would be beneficial to players who are looking to learn.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

Why would it be a gimmick Freddy? We're both good handicappers. I assume if pitted against each other we'd get even better.

One thing I think both Andy an I have in common is to teach rather than tout.

Explain how we got to the selections.

I think that would be beneficial to players who are looking to learn.

This is either the most elaborate troll job of all time or the worst way to try and get a job I’ve ever seen.

The funny thing is, what you’re really trying to do usurp Stabile. Which, as we know is something you’re notorious for.

But doesn’t that kind of make your “defending” of him make no sense?

Either way, I can’t imagine Tom Durkin doing all this schtick. He let his calls do the talking. He didn’t feel the need to pander and self promote non stop and everyday.

Imagine Durkin getting on a message board and telling people he thought he was currently calling better than at any point in his career? Imagine Durkin saying his calls have been clear, concise, accurate and exciting?

We get it Vic. You think a lot of yourself. Maybe if you took a break from telling everyone how great you are, others might feel the same way?

Just a thought.

Originally Posted by Dahoss

This is either the most elaborate troll job of all time or the worst way to try and get a job I’ve ever seen.

The funny thing is, what you’re really trying to do usurp Stabile. Which, as we know is something you’re notorious for.

But doesn’t that kind of make your “defending” of him make no sense?

Either way, I can’t imagine Tom Durkin doing all this schtick. He let his calls do the talking. He didn’t feel the need to pander and self promote non stop and everyday.

Imagine Durkin getting on a message board and telling people he thought he was currently calling better than at any point in his career? Imagine Durkin saying his calls have been clear, concise, accurate and exciting?

We get it Vic. You think a lot of yourself. Maybe if you took a break from telling everyone how great you are, others might feel the same way?

Just a thought.

One of the many things that make Tom Durkin the GOAT. Is he's much too smart to ever get involved in social media.

I on the other hand am not.

I've always enjoyed the banter.

Tina thinks I have a screw loose. She's probably right.

Since this thread is supposed to be about Secret Oath.

What do you think about the rider switch from Contreras to Saez?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

Since this thread is supposed to be about Secret Oath.

What do you think about the rider switch from Contreras to Saez?

Lukas made the switch one race too late.

Nothing against Contreras, but he's not Saez.

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Lukas made the switch one race too late.

Nothing against Contreras, but he's not Saez.

Take off a guy who had just won 3 in a row on her? Two of them Stakes. And worked her every time she breezed for three months?

I don't know any trainer that would make that change.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

Take off a guy who had just won 3 in a row on her? Two of them Stakes. And worked her every time she breezed for three months?

I don't know any trainer that would make that change.

Steve Asmussen did with Echo Zulu.

After her race in the Honeybee I suggested right here on this board that her rider would eventually get her beat. He tried to get too cute in the Honeybee and almost got her in trouble. Now, I don’t think she was ever winning the Arkansas Derby but his inability to maintain position and getting beat to two different spots, coupled with the slingshot move prevented her from running 2nd IMO.

She deserves a top rider. Contreras isn’t one. It’s an easy choice.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Steve Asmussen did with Echo Zulu.

After her race in the Honeybee I suggested right here on this board that her rider would eventually get her beat. He tried to get too cute in the Honeybee and almost got her in trouble. Now, I don’t think she was ever winning the Arkansas Derby but his inability to maintain position and getting beat to two different spots, coupled with the slingshot move prevented her from running 2nd IMO.

She deserves a top rider. Contreras isn’t one. It’s an easy choice.

Wayne's attitude has always been correct. He doesn't owe Contreras anything. He was always going to be one mediocre ride away from getting replaced. Why shouldn't he have been?

It's not like he has given Ethereal Road good rides in his last two races either.

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Steve Asmussen did with Echo Zulu.

After her race in the Honeybee I suggested right here on this board that her rider would eventually get her beat. He tried to get too cute in the Honeybee and almost got her in trouble. Now, I don’t think she was ever winning the Arkansas Derby but his inability to maintain position and getting beat to two different spots, coupled with the slingshot move prevented her from running 2nd IMO.

She deserves a top rider. Contreras isn’t one. It’s an easy choice.

I'm not disagreeing with the change now.

I'm saying that before the Arkansas Derby the was NO reason to make a change.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

before the Arkansas Derby the was NO reason to make a change.

...other than giving the horse the best opportunity to earn points towards the Derby with an eye towards starting in the Derby.

Might not have been a popular move had he done so, but John Sadler did the same with Rock Your World last year in the big race itself.

Of course, that move might have actually been part of Sadler's grand plan of derailing the rest of the horse's career. If so, it was a master stroke given Joel Rosario's complete ineptness.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

I'm not disagreeing with the change now.

I'm saying that before the Arkansas Derby the was NO reason to make a change.

Actually, there was. If I owned her, I would have replaced the rider before he cost her a win. There's a lot of money at stake. It was nice of Wayne not to, but the actual right thing to do was to have moved on.

I get that it's unfair to Contreras in that situation, but every owner has the right to get the rider he or she is most comfortable with.

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

...other than giving the horse the best opportunity to earn points towards the Derby with an eye towards starting in the Derby.

Might not have been a popular move had he done so, but John Sadler did the same with Rock Your World last year in the big race itself.

Of course, that move might have actually been part of Sadler's grand plan of derailing the rest of the horse's career. If so, it was a master stroke given Joel Rosario's complete ineptness.

I didn't think the ride in the Arkansas Derby was that horrible. Seemed to me like he'd had it beaten into his head not to move to early. He probably waited too long. It could very well have cost him second. Nobody that's ever ridden would have got her up to beat CYBERKNIFE that day.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Actually, there was. If I owned her, I would have replaced the rider before he cost her a win. There's a lot of money at stake. It was nice of Wayne not to, but the actual right thing to do was to have moved on.

I get that it's unfair to Contreras in that situation, but every owner has the right to get the rider he or she is most comfortable with.

I don't even look at it as unfair to Contreras. He got paid for the wins. Loyalty in this business means nothing. Nor should it. Especially at that level.

I think they rode the rider they thought would give them the best chance on that day. And now they think Saez will give them the best chance in KY.

I DO NOT think she would have beaten CYBERKNIFE no matter who rode her in the Arkansas Derby. Could she have been 2nd? Definitely.

Could she have won? Not in my opinion.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

I didn't think the ride in the Arkansas Derby was that horrible. Seemed to me like he'd had it beaten into his head not to move to early. He probably waited too long. It could very well have cost him second. Nobody that's ever ridden would have got her up to beat CYBERKNIFE that day.

It was a dreadful ride. He made the opposite move that Florent did when he effectively won the race on the backstretch, losing valuable position when the race was slowing down....and then rushing wide on the turn. He also gave up position around the first turn that ended up putting him in bad position thereafter.

She likely would have finished second, but there is an outside chance she could have won, and all of these things were the rider's fault. I'm not trying to crucify him, as these things happen, but to suggest his ride in Arkansas Derby wasn't poor is to fail to acknowledge what happened in the race.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

It was a dreadful ride. He made the opposite move that Florent did when he effectively won the race on the backstretch, losing valuable position when the race was slowing down....and then rushing wide on the turn. He also gave up position around the first turn that ended up putting him in bad position thereafter.

She likely would have finished second, but there is an outside chance she could have won, and all of these things were the rider's fault. I'm not trying to crucify him, as these things happen, but to suggest his ride in Arkansas Derby wasn't poor is to fail to acknowledge what happened in the race.

I said that it wasn't horrible in that I didn't think she would have won.

I agree he shouldn't have given up the position he had at the half mile pole.

You can even hear in my call. I couldn't believe that was her 3 lengths last at the 3/8th's pole.

As I've said that struck me as a jock who had been told not to move too early and didn't think on his feet enough to change tactics when circumstances dictated.

Could it have been better? 100% yes. Was it a travesty? That in my mind would only apply if I thought he cost her the win which I don't.

[blackthroatedwind]

It's not about resulting that she probably wouldn't have won, and it does matter that he absolutely cost her a placing ( look at the ride the eventual runner up got in relative terms ). The reality is it could very easily have cost her the race. That's what matters.

It was a poor ride in a number of ways. That's all that matters.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

It's not about resulting that she probably wouldn't have won, and it does matter that he absolutely cost her a placing ( look at the ride the eventual runner up got in relative terms ). The reality is it could very easily have cost her the race. That's what matters.

It was a poor ride in a number of ways. That's all that matters.

We both agree the ride was poor. But to varying degrees and different severity of the effect.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

We both agree the ride was poor. But to varying degrees and different severity of the effect.

Less than 30 minutes ago you posted this....

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

I didn't think the ride in the Arkansas Derby was that horrible.

So you have changed your mind. Nothing wrong with that.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Less than 30 minutes ago you posted this....



So you have changed your mind. Nothing wrong with that.

"Not that horrible" means somewhat horrible. But not tragic.

There is no change in what I'm saying.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

I think I'm calling better than at any point in my career. Clear, concise, accurate, exciting.

Tough weekend Vic.