English Channel ducking the big boys??

[Damascus '67]

Originally Posted by boldruler

He is better at this point than EC was at 3, and EC lost the Turf Classic by a nose to Shakespeare when he was 3. No American turf horse has anything on SU. The Euros are a different story.

He's raced one time over the turf and you're making him the next Manila. What happens if he gets beat?

[GPK]

Originally Posted by boldruler

He is better at this point than EC was at 3, and EC lost the Turf Classic by a nose to Shakespeare when he was 3. No American turf horse has anything on SU. The Euros are a different story.

Same old song and dance.....it's like there is an echo in here...

EC's record and PP's speak for themselves. He towers over SU and the funny thing is...you know that to be true.

[GPK]

If SU is so good, why didn't Tagg keep him and Colonial and run in the VA Derby. I mean, that was only a Grade 2 $1,000,000 race..

Originally Posted by GPK

If SU is so good, why didn't Tagg keep him and Colonial and run in the VA Derby. I mean, that was only a Grade 2 $1,000,000 race..

Because Tagg is alsoa smart trainer and knows that the goal is a grade one win Kev, not a grade 2 at any price. A grade one win gets you autmatic liscnese to stand at stud and far outshadows the money in a grade 2 even if its a million. The Sec is the only grade one grass race for strictly three year olds and tagg knew this was the goal. But our brain damaged friend here(Bold Ruler) will say its ok for Tagg to do that, but not for pletcher to skip the million to try and get to his goal. Which basically makes Bold Ruler a spineless, know nothing hypocrite. But we already knew that so its no big deal.
Bottom line is that both Tagg and Pletcher did or are doing what is right in attempt to reach and pursue their main objectives and that of their owners.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Because Tagg is alsoa smart trainer and knows that the goal is a grade one win Kev, not a grade 2 at any price. A grade one win gets you autmatic liscnese to stand at stud and far outshadows the money in a grade 2 even if its a million. The Sec is the only grade one grass race for strictly three year olds and tagg knew this was the goal. But our brain damaged friend here(Bold Ruler) will say its ok for Tagg to do that, but not for pletcher to skip the million to try and get to his goal. Which basically makes Bold Ruler a spineless, know nothing hypocrite. But we already knew that so its no big deal.
Bottom line is that both Tagg and Pletcher did or are doing what is right in attempt to reach and pursue their main objectives and that of their owners.

Mike, is from July 15th to August 12th not enough time between races? Right at a month....what was wrong with entering in both?

Originally Posted by GPK

Mike, is from July 15th to August 12th not enough time between races? Right at a month....what was wrong with entering in both?

You are dead wrong kev. Its the narrow three weeks between the two races at Colonial that kept him from doing that. Its just too quick back, especially with only 4 weeks to the next race out in Arlington. And think of the toll the extra shipping plays. They aren't machines kev, you can't just beat on them like that. Tagg made the right play.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by oracle80

You are dead wrong kev. Its the narrow three weeks between the two races at Colonial that kept him from doing that. Its just too quick back, especially with only 4 weeks to the next race out in Arlington. And think of the toll the extra shipping plays. They aren't machines kev, you can't just beat on them like that. Tagg made the right play.

Mike...IM NOT DEAD WRONG....I was asking a question, not making a statement. notice the little ? on the end of the sentence

Originally Posted by oracle80

You are dead wrong kev. Its the narrow three weeks between the two races at Colonial that kept him from doing that. Its just too quick back, especially with only 4 weeks to the next race out in Arlington. And think of the toll the extra shipping plays. They aren't machines kev, you can't just beat on them like that. Tagg made the right play.

Tagg did not make the right play by choice. He probably would have gone back to Colonial but there was an issue. Showing Up had a reaction to a panalog injection for his puncture wound that he had from months ago. Please don't go spreading that around. The horse is fine now.

As for grade 1's vs grade 2's for breeding, Showing Up is never going to be a great commercial stallion. He just isn't that well bred and nobody wants to breed to grass sires. The Secretariat isn't going to help him that much in the shed, he will have to win a BC Turf or a big grade 1 with older horses to really increase his value.

Originally Posted by oracle80

You are dead wrong kev. Its the narrow three weeks between the two races at Colonial that kept him from doing that. Its just too quick back, especially with only 4 weeks to the next race out in Arlington. And think of the toll the extra shipping plays. They aren't machines kev, you can't just beat on them like that. Tagg made the right play.

Hey Oracle, you should take what you just said and apply it to Songster. You said yourself--these horses are not machines.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Hey Oracle, you should take what you just said and apply it to Songster. You said yourself--these horses are not machines.

Thats the dumbest thing I ever heard, Songster had two months off before that race, where is teh connection?
I used machine in reference to overracing a horse on short rest.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Thats the dumbest thing I ever heard, Songster had two months off before that race, where is teh connection?
I used machine in reference to overracing a horse on short rest.

Showing Up raced off 2 weeks for the KD. He could have raced if healthy. He just had a minor problem. Tagg would have gladly picked up another $600K against the field he had previously destroyed, but he was looking out for the horse. Trust me, $600K is a lot of money to a small operation like Taggs.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Thats the dumbest thing I ever heard, Songster had two months off before that race, where is teh connection?
I used machine in reference to overracing a horse on short rest.

Oh so now horses arent machines as long as they have a nice layoff--lol. A horse cannot fire their best race every time out regardless of the layoff. Again, you said it "these horses are not machines."

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Oh so now horses arent machines as long as they have a nice layoff--lol. A horse cannot fire their best race every time out regardless of the layoff. Again, you said it "these horses are not machines."

Yes a GOOD trainer like Dutrow or Pletcher has his horses sharp and ready with enough time between starts. Of course they are among the best.........

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Oh so now horses arent machines as long as they have a nice layoff--lol. A horse cannot fire their best race every time out regardless of the layoff. Again, you said it "these horses are not machines."

Well he just called me a spineless know nothing hypocrit, which we all already knew (LOL), but I think Oracle would have no problem getting into the club.

I am slowly becoming the biggest Albertrani fan in the world. Funny how the guy who trains the best horse we have seen in years is a little "dwarf" who is an idiot. Imagine how good the horse would be if that guy who hasn't yet won a Classic in 51 tries trained him. LOL.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Yes a GOOD trainer like Dutrow or Pletcher has his horses sharp and ready with enough time between starts. Of course they are among the best.........

Oh ok, so if Dutrow and Pletcher has a horse off the proper layoff then they are a lock to win. So their win% with a layoff of 2 months or more should be 100%--correct?

Originally Posted by oracle80

Yes a GOOD trainer like Dutrow or Pletcher has his horses sharp and ready with enough time between starts. Of course they are among the best.........

Richard E. Dutrow, Jr. 397 106 69 56 $4,804,901 26.7 58.2
Thomas Albertrani 103 22 16 10 $1,926,174 21.4 46.6

I don't know but Albertrani sure does look like he has done alright for himself. Albertrani seems to be making considerably more money per start than Dutrow.

Where is Dutrow's classic win? How about Pletcher's?

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Oh ok, so if Dutrow and Pletcher has a horse off the proper layoff then they are a lock to win. So their win% with a layoff of 2 months or more should be 100%--correct?

I dont recall them losing with a 1-5 shot in a graded stakes race. Please feel free to get back to me with your proof.

Originally Posted by boldruler

Richard E. Dutrow, Jr. 397 106 69 56 $4,804,901 26.7 58.2
Thomas Albertrani 103 22 16 10 $1,926,174 21.4 46.6

I don't know Albetrani sure does look like he has done alright for himself. Albertrani seems to be making considerably more money per start than Dutrow.

Where is Dutrow's classic win? How about Pletcher's?

LOL!!! Dutrow has won a filly classic, the Coaching Club Oaks. hes also won the Breeders Cup Classic, something Albertrani will never do in my opinion. Hes also won the Met Mile, the Donn, the Woodward, The Prioress, and Breeders Cup Sprint. Also races Albertrani has never won.
Problem with guys like you know zero about the game is you try and use partial stats from one year to try and prove something. What yoiu end up proving is that you don't know a damn thing. Wake me up when Albertrani trains a champion.
Note- Pletcher has won too many grade ones that Albertrani will never win to list in this short space.

Originally Posted by oracle80

LOL!!! Dutrow has won a filly classic, the Coaching Club Oaks. hes also won the Breeders Cup Classic, something Albertrani will never do in my opinion. Hes also won the Met Mile, the Donn, the Woodward, The Prioress, and Breeders Cup Sprint. Also races Albertrani has never won.
Problem with guys like you know zero about the game is you try and use partial stats from one year to try and prove something. What yoiu end up proving is that you don't know a damn thing. Wake me up when Albertrani trains a champion.
Note- Pletcher has won too many grade ones that Albertrani will never win to list in this short space.

Filly Classic? So has Pletcher? Nobody cares (congratulations to you guys though). Albertrani has been in training for 2yrs and won a real Classic.

Wake you up when he trains a champion? He has the 3yr old champion now and the favorite for HOY.

The guy trains for Darley which means he is going to eventually win everything.

Originally Posted by oracle80

LOL!!! Dutrow has won a filly classic, the Coaching Club Oaks. hes also won the Breeders Cup Classic, something Albertrani will never do in my opinion. Hes also won the Met Mile, the Donn, the Woodward, The Prioress, and Breeders Cup Sprint. Also races Albertrani has never won.
Problem with guys like you know zero about the game is you try and use partial stats from one year to try and prove something. What yoiu end up proving is that you don't know a damn thing. Wake me up when Albertrani trains a champion.
Note- Pletcher has won too many grade ones that Albertrani will never win to list in this short space.

This is a funny post. If you are going to compare Dutrow, Pletcher and Albertraini then you have to make the playing field level. Look at each trainers first two years of training stats then make the comparison. I think that Albetrani would be head and shoulders above Dutrow and Pletcher when looking at their first two years of training.