Most Impressive in Defeat?

[Merlinsky]

Will Take Charge and Declaration of War would definitely get in there. One of these days O'Brien's gonna get himself a Classic win. Reneesgotzip and The Fugue deserve kudos too.

Might nominate Bobby's Kitten to soothe the temper of Ken Ramsey over the ride. He probably thought that was the race he was most likely to win, then he ends up publicly firing the jockey and making sure everybody on tv knew it.

[Kasept]

Za Approval. Strong Mandate/Havana. Was amazed by maiden Colonel Joan hitting board in JFT. Rosalind likely wins JF with clean break.

[Travis Stone]

Havana. Will Take Charge ran huge too.

[cmorioles]

Will Take Charge. Against a pedestrian pace, he was flying home and lost an inch.

The Fugue was another that ran very well in defeat. Strong Mandate was probably best in the Juvy, though a case could be made for Havana. The winner was clearly 3rd best.

[Seattleallstar]

as much as it pains me to say it, Im going with Bobbys Kitten, just to even hang in there and be in a dog fight in deep stretch for any top 3 placing like that was amazing. Horse could of easily just packed it in, but running that fast at that distance on grass being that young was amazing.

[tywizard]

I've watched the stretch run of the classic multiple times...several times I've keyed in on Declaration of War. I realize J O'Brien has won some huge races but I can't help but focus on how inefficient his motions are. Since he's 6' or more he bounces all over the place and it makes you wonder if he was potentially hurting the horses momentum.

[blackthroatedwind]

Did Pat really write " The boys of Ballydoyle " in this thread?

Excuse me while I barf.

[tywizard]

I'm not suggesting this be the way to answer the question but...according to Trakus, what horse covered the most ground relative to margin of defeat?

Will Take Charge was very wide and still game down the stretch.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by tywizard

I'm not suggesting this be the way to answer the question but...according to Trakus, what horse covered the most ground relative to margin of defeat?

Will Take Charge was very wide and still game down the stretch.

You of course are assuming 2 things.
1. Wider paths weren't possibly better path during either of the 2 days
2. Against the clock, all races were equal, i.e. a horse that loses a ton of ground in a dreadfully slow race didn't necessarily put in the most impressive performance in defeat.

[tywizard]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

You of course are assuming 2 things.
1. Wider paths weren't possibly better path during either of the 2 days
2. Against the clock, all races were equal, i.e. a horse that loses a ton of ground in a dreadfully slow race didn't necessarily put in the most impressive performance in defeat.

I'm not assuming anything. In watching the race the horse was wide in the turn (5-6 path) and lost by mere inches.

I wasn't commenting on the speed of the race or figures....Just watching the race one can't help but wonder if he would have been able to nail MMM if he had only be three wide.

I think I get your point but you're attacking an argument I never really made.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by tywizard

I'm not assuming anything. In watching the race the horse was wide in the turn (5-6 path) and lost by mere inches.

I wasn't commenting on the speed of the race or figures....Just watching the race one can't help but wonder if he would have been able to nail MMM if he had only be three wide.

I think I get your point but you're attacking an argument I never really made.

Trakus is very useful. I was simply pointing out the ways it can be misinterpreted. You made no argument, I wasn't being critical.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

You of course are assuming 2 things.
1. Wider paths weren't possibly better path during either of the 2 days
2. Against the clock, all races were equal, i.e. a horse that loses a ton of ground in a dreadfully slow race didn't necessarily put in the most impressive performance in defeat.

wider path might be 'better' but it's also longer.

[NTamm1215]

Strong Mandate was pretty damn good in defeat.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Did Pat really write " The boys of Ballydoyle " in this thread?

Excuse me while I barf.

there ya go, first name only again.....

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Did Pat really write " The boys of Ballydoyle " in this thread?

Excuse me while I barf.

The crew from Coolmore? Better?

[Calzone Lord]

The correct answer of which horse ran the best race in defeat? The Fugue

I don't know about "impressive" though, because she was expected to run very well.

The Turf Sprint was an absolutely terrible race. 13th (and last) place beaten just 6 lengths. 10th place beaten just 4 lengths. The final time was almost as slow as a 2yo race over the same course earlier in the day.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

The correct answer of which horse ran the best race in defeat? The Fugue

I don't know about "impressive" though, because she was expected to run very well.

The Turf Sprint was an absolutely terrible race. 13th (and last) place beaten just 6 lengths. 10th place beaten just 4 lengths. The final time was almost as slow as a 2yo race over the same course earlier in the day.

The Fugue ran very well. I also wonder if Romantico could have won if she had received Lasix.

Those were very tough races to do, and it is really hard to imagine the field was that bad. I know Beyer commented he didn't trust the times. I don't think there is a problem with them to be honest, but that race is a tough call any way you cut it.

[PatCummings]

Isolate Will Take Charge on video and watch it again...

Saez pushes him along on the first turn, to keep Palace Malice from coming over on him, then has to ease him back to avoid heels in front. He then looks completely all-in about a third of the way around the far turn, where it seems impossible for him to come on and get a slice. Saez keeps him going, angles out to the widest point only in the last third of the far turn, and just never gives up on him. Remarkable run for a horse making his 13th start in 12.5 months.

I wasn't arguing before that any one horses was more impressive than another in defeat, because well, you really just can't pick one. In the Classic itself, while they don't pay it that way, I felt like three horses won.

[cmorioles]

Pat will like this one...just did some rough work ... thinking of writing an article on it for TimeformUS. In the Juvenile, I these were the pace figures I have for the 3/4 mile and the finish for the top 3, 0-100 scale:

Havana		82    72
Strong Mandate	84    71
New Year's Day	76    73

But when you add in ground loss, they look like this:

Havana		91	81
Strong Mandate	93	79
New Year's Day	81	79

Pretty tough to argue the winner was anything better than 3rd best (not that you needed numbers to see that, but this will be part of the future)

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Pat will like this one...just did some rough work ... thinking of writing an article on it for TimeformUS. In the Juvenile, I these were the pace figures I have for the 3/4 mile and the finish for the top 3, 0-100 scale:

Havana		82    72
Strong Mandate	84    71
New Year's Day	76    73

But when you add in ground loss, they look like this:

Havana		91	81
Strong Mandate	93	79
New Year's Day	81	79

Pretty tough to argue the winner was anything better than 3rd best (not that you needed numbers to see that, but this will be part of the future)

Good stuff. Tap It Rich lost the most ground in the field too, be interested to see where he fits in. That horse just doesn't seem like he has a real penchant for cornering.