Why Lukas went downhill

[1st_Saturday_in_May]

I find it striking that DWL is the only guy on the Top 100 EB trainers list under 10% winners. I refuse to believe that guys like Brian Koriner, john Rigatteiri, Pat Mouton, and Kelly Breen are getting better horses than D Dubs. I havent bet one horse that this guy has sent out all year, and so far it's paid off!

[DiscreetCat=Monster]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

No I'm accusing you of being an idiot. As far as I know that doesn't qualify as handicapped.

People that have shown to incapable of hearing and retaining are not handicap?

Now your thowing accusations around, sounds to me like you should practice what you preach.

[DiscreetCat=Monster]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

yeah, you did get suspended. stop twisting things. now i'm picking on you. WAAAAAA!!!!

Look at Mr. Know it all the regualar board tatle tale

[DiscreetCat=Monster]

Originally Posted by 1st_Saturday_in_May

I find it striking that DWL is the only guy on the Top 100 EB trainers list under 10% winners. I refuse to believe that guys like Brian Koriner, john Rigatteiri, Pat Mouton, and Kelly Breen are getting better horses than D Dubs. I havent bet one horse that this guy has sent out all year, and so far it's paid off!

I will never support anything Lukas does after going wild that poor horse deserved better after the KY derby.

I read ,The Big Horse , a couple of years ago about the trainer PG Johnson. It was about Volponi. I seem to recall a similar take on Lukas in this book, on working both sides in buying horses. It didnot paint him in a very complimentary light. Sorry, I can't provide a page number for you to look it up.

[DiscreetCat=Monster]

Originally Posted by point given

I read ,The Big Horse , a couple of years ago about the trainer PG Johnson. It was about Volponi. I seem to recall a similar take on Lukas in this book, on working both sides in buying horses. It didnot paint him in a very complimentary light. Sorry, I can't provide a page number for you to look it up.

I am gonna get that book

[DiscreetCat=Monster]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

You better get someone to read it to you.

Thats allright you have no idea if i have taken, passed or scored on the GRE test but i am sure you already know. cause your the smart one here

[DiscreetCat=Monster]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Again, there is no doubt it goes on. Lukas could very well be the worst one doing it. I guess my issue is with Lose=Glue. I should probably have conducted this on PM. He bothers me, and so does his classless name.

Once again this is a freedom of speech and you bother me i didn't tell you write back on what i posted you took that upon yourself cause you talk to Lukas and all, you can use the PM all you want buddy but keep my name out your dental!

[DiscreetCat=Monster]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Again, the reading thing. I said I have talked to him a few times. At no point did I present that we are friends, or talk regularly. My issue is with you, but at this point I'm going to ignore you. I have a feeling you will do your part to get the boot again.

OK see ya!!!


LUKAS stole PADUA'S $ IMO

[Rupert Pupkin]

We've debated about Lukas many times on this board. The fans have a totally different perception of Lukas than anyone in the business. The fan see him smiling on television and they know he won all these big races. That's about all they know. They don't know that he's broken down so many horses that many of the insurance companies will not insure his horses.

I don't know one person in the business that thinks Lukas is a good trainer. He had about a 4 year head-start on everyone in terms of pharmocology back in the 1980s. He would put his horses on steroids when they were yearlings. His 2 year olds were like 3 year olds in terms of physical maturity. That's why Lukas was so dominant in the 2 year old races. Lukas always had great assistants. He was a great salesman. He knew how to talk to people and not only that he was having huge success. Before you knew it, he was getting $70 million worth of horses every year while the other top trainers were lucky to get $10 million. Many good trainers were lucky to get $3 million worth of horses. Anyway, before you knew it all the other trainers were doing the same thing as Lukas in terms of steroids and all the other stuff. He still had a huge advantage because he had such good owners. At that point he was still outspending most trainers by 30x. Anyway, everything eventually caught up with him. He still gets great horses but obviously not as good as he used to. He still gets better horses than 99% of the guys out there, yet his win percentage is usually around 10%. I think the guy is a horrible trainer. I know that sounds crazy to people who aren't in the business. They can't belive that a guy who had that much success is not a good trainer. You don't need to take my word for it. Ask anyone in the business what the lowdown is on Lukas. They'll all tell you the same thing. If you even mention his names, most guys will just roll their eyes.

To this day everyone just shakes their heads in the morning when they see his horses train. His horses are so sore that it is unbelievable.

[DiscreetCat=Monster]

Finally someone who knows lukas is a bussness man and not a horseman!
You da man!

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

We've debated about Lukas many times on this board. The fans have a totally different perception of Lukas than anyone in the business. The fan see him smiling on television and they know he won all these big races. That's about all they know. They don't know that he's broken down so many horses that many of the insurance companies will not insure his horses.

I don't know one person in the business that thinks Lukas is a good trainer. He had about a 4 year head-start on everyone in terms of pharmocology back in the 1980s. He would put his horses on steroids when they were yearlings. His 2 year olds were like 3 year olds in terms of physical maturity. That's why Lukas was so dominant in the 2 year old races. Lukas always had great assistants. He was a great salesman. He knew how to talk to people and not only that he was having huge success. Before you knew it, he was getting $70 million worth of horses every year while the other top trainers were lucky to get $10 million. Many good trainers were lucky to get $3 million worth of horses. Anyway, before you knew it all the other trainers sere doing the same thing as Lukas in terms of steroids and all the other stuff. He still had a huge advantage because he had such good owners. At that point he was outspending most trainers by 30x. Anyway, everything eventually caught up with him. He still gets great horses but obviously not as good as he used to. He still gets better horses than 99% of the guys out there, yet his win percentage is usually around 10%.

To this day everyone just shakes their heads in the morning when they see his horses train. His horses are so sore that it is unbelievable.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Even his own employees think he's a terrible trainer. I've heard so many stories about them being happy when he leaves town because they can finally give the horses a break. They'll just jog them or pony them for a few days while he's gone and Lukas thinks their following his instructions. When he's in town, he won't listen to his employees. They'll tell him a horse is sore, or has tendon, or whatever and Lukas won't listen. He'll say, "Oh the horse is fine. He's not sore. That's just the way he moves. Go gallop him two miles". Or if the horse has a tendon, "He'll say, "No, he doesn't have a tendon. That's just a cosmetic thing. Go work him 5 furlongs."

[DiscreetCat=Monster]

Thats a champion trainer for ya Da Hoss

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Even his own employees think he's a terrible trainer. I've heard so many stories about them being happy when he leaves town because they can finally give the horses a break. They'll just jog them or pony them for a few days while he's gone and Lukas thinks their following his instructions. When he's in town, he won't listen to his employees. They'll tell him a horse is sore, or has tendon, or whatever and Lukas won't listen. He'll say, "Oh the horse is fine. He's not sore. That's just the way he moves. Go gallop him two miles". Or if the horse has a tendon, "He'll say, "No, he doesn't have a tendon. That's just a cosmetic thing. Go work him 5 furlongs."

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Rupert in your opinion, how many of the other big name trainers are doing things similar to what Lukas did in those times? Surely he isn't the only trainer to have many horses break down on him.

In terms of percentages, his number of breakdowns is astronomically higher than any of the other guys. That's why so many insurance companies won't insure his horses. No other trainers have that problem.

In addition, he has more horses that ease than anybody else. They keep stats on that type of thing and he had something like 4x more horses ease than the average trainer. That is incredible. How often do you see a Bobby Frankel, Todd Pletcher, Bill Mott, or any other trainer's horses run dead last by 30 or not even finish the race? It is incredibly rare. The only way a horse will run dead last by 40 lengths is if the horse was either so sore that he shouldn't be running or he was so hopelessly overmatched that it is was ridiculous. A competent trainer will rarely have a horse ease. It happens with Lukas horses all the time.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic, so my bad if it came off that way. But seriously, don't you think that this is the practice of a lot of trainers?

Trust me. He is at a totally differen level. I've honestly never seen anything like it. Nobody even comes close to him. His horses just hobble around the track in the morning. There is no trainer out there with horses that sore.

I'll tell you one thing that hurt Lukas quite a bit. His son was actually a great trainer and his son would run his whole East coast operation at times. Anyway, his son had a terrible accident and had to retire. I think that certainly had an effect. When you lose a great assistant, it hurts. Wayne was always an excellent judge of talent when it came to not only hiring assistants, but picking horses out to buy. When you have great assistants, it make a huge difference. Even back in the day, his assistants oftet times would not listen to him if he was out of town. They would back off the horses when Wayne went out of town.

We can say what we want about Wayne, but I have to hand it to him for what he was able to accomplish. He was way ahead of his time.

[DiscreetCat=Monster]

Rupert you are one of the few people that actually know some good insite, i will listen to what you have to say from now on!

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Trust me. He is at a totally differen level. I've honestly never seen anything like it. Nobody even comes close to him. His horses just hobble around the track in the morning. There is no trainer out there with horses that sore.

I'll tell you one thing that hurt Lukas quite a bit. His son was actually a great trainer and his son would run his whole East coast operation at times. Anyway, his son had a terrible accident and had to retire. I think that certainly had an effect. When you lose a great assistant, it hurts. Wayne was always an excellent judge of talent when it came to not only hiring assistants, but picking horses out to buy. When you have great assistants, it make a huge difference. Even back in the day, his assistants oftet times would not listen to him if he was out of town. They would back off the horses when Wayne went out of town.

We can say what we want about Wayne, but I have to hand it to him for what he was able to accomplish. He was way ahead of his time.

[Rupert Pupkin]

One thing that really separates Lukas from the other trainers is that he will practically never give his horses time off, even if they have a serious injury. he will run them until it is basically impossible for them to run any more. Unless they have a broken leg, he'll keep running them. You will practically never see a Lukas horse take 6-12 months off and then come back better than ever. The reason is beacuse he won't turn them out until they're so badly injured that they will never be the same. Once permanent damage is done, the horse will never be the same, even if you give them a year off.

With other trainers, you will often see their horse come back from layoffs better than ever. It happens all the time. The reason is because most trainers will stop on a horse if they have a slight injury. If you stop on them and give them time to heal, there is a good chance that they will come back 100%.

[DiscreetCat=Monster]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

What was the last grade you finished in school?

I guess you have no idea what the GRE test is and you know stooping to calling names is gonna get you suspended you better chill. I am sure you have already read the P Val post and now your blood is boiling take a walk it will cool you down.

[DiscreetCat=Monster]

Look Going Wild is still running here is the PP

Track Date Race Class Distance Condition Jockey FP
Turfway 09/09/06 9 STAKES [3U] All Weather Track, 1M wf Mojica, O 6
Saratoga 08/25/06 3 ALLOWANCE OPTIONAL CLAIMING [3U] $75,000 Dirt, 7F wf Hill, C 5
Saratoga 07/30/06 3 ALLOWANCE OPTIONAL CLAIMING [3U] $75,000 Dirt, 6F wf Bejarano, R 2
Churchill 07/09/06 8 ALLOWANCE OPTIONAL CLAIMING [3U] $80,000 Dirt, 6 1/2F wf Lanerie, C 3
Churchill 06/25/06 5 ALLOWANCE OPTIONAL CLAIMING [3U] $80,000 Turf, 5F sf Lanerie, C 5
Churchill 06/14/06 8 ALLOWANCE OPTIONAL CLAIMING [3U] $80,000 Dirt, 1M wf Leparoux, J 6
Churchill 05/18/06 6 ALLOWANCE OPTIONAL CLAIMING [3U] $80,000 Turf, 5F ft Jacinto, J 5
Turfway 09/17/05 13 Kentucky Cup Sprint S. (Grade 3) Stakes [3] 6 Furlongs Fast McKee J 3
Saratoga 08/07/05 9 Amsterdam S. (Grade 2) Stakes [3] 6 Furlongs Fast Velasquez C H 7
Belmont Park 06/11/05 8 Riva Ridge Breeders' Cup S. (Grade 2) Stakes [3] 7 Furlongs Fast Bailey J D 6
Pimlico 05/21/05 12 Preakness S. (Grade 1) Stakes [3] 1 3/16 Miles Fast Albarado R 14
Churchill 05/07/05 10 Kentucky Derby (Grade 1) Stakes [3] 1 1/4 Miles Fast Valdivia, Jr. J 18
Keeneland 04/23/05 9 Coolmore Lexington S. (Grade 2) Stakes [3] 1 1/16 Miles Sloppy Stevens G L 5
Aqueduct 04/09/05 9 Wood Memorial S. (Grade 1) Stakes [3] 1 1/8 Miles Fast Espinoza V 7
Santa Anita 03/05/05 5 Santa Catalina S. (Grade 2) Stakes [3] 1 1/16 Miles Fast Bejarano R 2

[DiscreetCat=Monster]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

If calling you an idiot gets me suspended, so be it. Far worse is said on here every day. You would know a thing or two about being suspended right? I know what the GRE test is, and judging by your vocabulary, and overall grasp of the english language I think you may be mixing it up with GED. Which honestly, makes a lot of sense. Goodnight!!!!

I never said i couldn't go ghetto on someone you don't know where people grow up before they are able to get an education, so it does make alot of sense to people that can relate to not having alot growing up. There is nothing wrong with a GED I have friends that have GED's and do just fine for themselves. Now you have CLOWNED on the HANDICAP and people with GED's and had nothing to add that is of any use.