#21
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#22
|
|||
|
|||
The insurance premium is one aspect -- the other is capacity. I am not saying that you couldn't get $60m of coverage, but there has been drastic changes in the insurance and more importantly reinsurance marketplace.
I don't count other people's money, literally speaking, and there is an irony there considering I am in the financial business and exclusively work with wealthy people, high-net-worth/income, etc. However, if you have a horse that you would like to insure for $60m and the cost to insure him is $3m -- that might be a true "out of pocket" as the horse may not have earned $3m. I am not defending those who own the horses or critisizing them for that matter. You want to play you have to pay. That's the price of admission. There is an economic side to this. People make financial decisions for two reasons -- economics and emotions. Eric |
#23
|
||||
|
||||
But really how many gamblers have you seen boycott the races since they announced Bernardinis retirement ? We arent talking about small fries we are talking about big horses , and I was just putting one aspect out there, of course we know the sheiks have plenty of money and the insurance rates are nothing to them. But they are to some people, so owners are supposed to just forego the risk and keep forking out the dough and hope when its all over they have something left.
I would purpose that no good buisnessman would bock at a turn around in their investment, one that could actually provide future money to keep buying breeding and racing horses for a very long time.
__________________
Horses are like strawberries....they can go bad overnight. Charlie Whittingham Last edited by Kasept : 11-13-2006 at 08:41 PM. |
#24
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Guess I should go ahead and retire them now. |
#25
|
||||
|
||||
Ill buy them bigsmc, what do you have Dont retire them
|
#26
|
|||
|
|||
Got it. Even so, I am not sure what % of high-profile horses are owned by royalty, the super-wealthy, etc. nor in my mind is there a direct correlation. Like I said, I am not counting other people's money, nor am I judging. However, if the next super-horse comes along and is owned by a working class class guy who got lucky, common sense or a knee jerk reaction would be that they take the money and run. Whether it's common sense, diversification, risk, who knows.
However, if that same horse is owned by a sheik, a prince, or a king, or someone of incredible wealth -- wouldn't the same thinking dictate that "they didn't need the money" or something along those lines. Maybe there is a "quit while you are on top" mentality. I don't know. If Empire Maker was sound, would he have raced as a four year old? Who knows. I think many can make a very convincible case either way. Eric Last edited by Kasept : 11-13-2006 at 08:42 PM. |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
Thank you Andy.
Personally, I think there is a much bigger issue going on here. This is not an accusation or stereotype so just bear with me here. Often, the bettors feel that their dollars "drive the boat" so to speak. The owners feel they are responsible for making the game happen and putting on the show. I've heard trainers say that the jocks shouldn't get the same % as the trainer as the trainer is the one who does the real day to day with the horse. The jockeys want health insurance and rightfully so. The big owner wants higher purses for the big stakes, bonus money, syndications with real cash, and so on. The small owner wants to be able to pay the jock fee when his horse finishes up the track and wants higher purses for $5k claimers (by the way, I have one of these racing today so don't think I am preaching to a choir that I am unfamiliar with, LOL). The tracks want more simulcasting revenue, VLT's, better tax deals and legislation, and more of the ever shrinking pie. Anyway, do all of us see a theme here? Does everyone see what's going on in the background. Think about it. Everybody wants something, most often for themselves. It's the "what's in it for me" mentality. I've seen it go on for many years. Now I am not critisizing any one of these factions -- but they are factionalized. I have said it before -- there needs to be a massive paradigm shift in the mindset of all of these parties. They need to be brought together, to work together on the sport and on the business. Anyway, that's enough transformation talk for now, LOL. Thanks again Andy. Eric Last edited by ELA : 11-13-2006 at 11:08 PM. |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#29
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#30
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I understand there are other risks, too. Mainly, that a horse like Bernardini may not live up to expectations as a 4-yr-old, thus reducing that $60 million estimate of worth. Perhaps that is the main reason horses are rushed to stud--fear that they are not as good as the market currently values them. --Dunbar
__________________
Curlin and Hard Spun finish 1,2 in the 2007 BC Classic, demonstrating how competing in all three Triple Crown races ruins a horse for the rest of the year...see avatar photo from REUTERS/Lucas Jackson |
#31
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
http://www.facebook.com/cajungator26 |
#32
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
I agree with some of what you said but there is another issue involved. Lets take a look at Flower Alley, a horse whose BCC figure wise and visually was every bit as good or better than Bern's BCC. The owner of FA is a billionaire, and although he could easily have gone to stud at 50 g's a pop at the end of last year(grade one 1 1/4 mile winning son of superhot Distorted Humor who also placed against HOY in the biggest race we have) but he chose to race on with him. FA didn't go on at age 4(to say the very least) and who can say why? In any case now he goes to stud at 25 g's and was the subject of ridicule. When you send a horse to stud "leaving them wanting more" his image forever remains intact. Bringing them back is risky not only in terms of cash, but in how it hurts to see your horse being the subject of jokes and ridicule. Had Funny Cide had nuts, he would have gone to stud at the end of his 3YO year and be remembered as a duel classic winner. Now hes the subject of endless jokes and ridicule. People who own these horses take tremendous pride in them, huge pride. It extends even further than that, breeders, trainers, agents, the people who raised helped raise a horse on the farm(I believe we have a Henny Hughes raiser on the board) all take tremendous pride in watching a horse that they had a part in accomplish something at the highest level. It hurts tremendously to see people taking pot shots at the horse even more than it ever hurts financially. Its a tough call for an owner to bring a horse back for another year, especially if hes had any problems that may or may not be 100% fixable. The loss of cash hurts, but hearing people talk about your horse in a negative way hurts far more. I've listened to owners in the situation of having a horse regress after being top notch at one time, and they are more hurt with stung pride than they are anything else. |
#33
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
http://www.facebook.com/cajungator26 |
#34
|
|||
|
|||
I understand your point, and in this case while it might be true in the abstract -- it doesn't make it so. What I mean is that obviously the owner(s) of Bernardini can afford do to whatever he/they choose. The ironic part is that he/they did! Do you think the horse was retired so that they could see an ROI? Remember, nobody is writing them a check for $60m. Anyway, they probably spent 10 times that amount over the last 10 to 15 years worldwide on their operation. It is not an ROI issue, at least I don't think so. Does anyone know how many shares in Empire Maker were sold? Will they be selling shares in Bernardini?
As much as it is human nature to do so, I do not think the public, fans, bettors, other owners, etc. can have an expectation that (other) owners will do as they would or the so called "do the right thing". If we do, then we will consistantly be disappointed. Period. Who is to say what "the right thing" is? It sounds far to judgemental and self-imposing to me. Did I want to see Bernardini run as a four year old? Of course I did. I am a fan first, and an owner second. But they retired him -- so be it. We have every right to be disappointed; but to go further and critisize, personally, I don't see it. Eric |
#35
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
And it's true that any person who had any hand in raising or training a horse then feels a measure of personal satisfaction and pride when they run well...but not just at the highest level---I was more excited yesterday when a filly that I bottle fed ran 2nd in a MSW for 3YO. It extends to every level of the sport.
__________________
Seek respect, not attention. |
#36
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
#37
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Last edited by Kasept : 11-13-2006 at 08:45 PM. |
#38
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
Seek respect, not attention. |
#39
|
|||
|
|||
I think oracle80 brings up several points -- first, the "wanting for more" aspect is very true. The "intrinsic" aspect of a stallion, or the aura of the horse, plays out here. The image, along with maximizing value is key, but I would say that many people feel it is more key for someone who "needs" the money. Again, who knows.
Having a stallion peak in value can make one become very vulnerable. Often the stallion has way more downside then up, and often has only downside. Professionally, I work with athletes, entertainers, and high net worth families and individuals. I hate to stereotype but often the more zeros on your balance sheet, the more "ego" can potentially come into play, the more "image" can come into play, etc. I mean how many homes can you own? How big can they be? It is more than relative as you move up the wealth scale. Look at a generic person worth $50m and then the generic someone worth $1b. Sure, there are exceptions and perhaps no rules as well. I was in the paddock recently when one of our horses was racing. I knew the horse would run but just wasn't sure how well (layoff). Anyway, we are second/third choice and there's a 2/5 or 3/5 shot in the stall next to us. The jock riding the heavy favorite comes out and says to the trainer "so, what do we look like here, is there anyone here I need to worry about" or something along those lines. The trainer responds "just point him in the right direction, enjoy the ride, and I'll see you in couple of minutes and get ready to get your picture taken" Anyway, of course there is pride and ego. I immediately wanted to finish ahead of that horse, even if it was second to last. It's human nature. Now I would never change strategy or make it a personal vendetta and with me that thinking lasts a few seconds. But we need to think about things sometimes with a different perspective. Eric |
#40
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|