CRIST: Sets the NY facts straight

[Linny]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The goal of " racinos " is to not let their patrons even know there is racing going on, of this there is no doubt, and it is seemingly true everywhere but probably nowhere worse than NY State. I am not saying you said this, but be absolutely clear that this is in NO way NYRA's fault, and strictly the fault of the STATE and, specifically, the NY State Lottery. This is another example of State regulation acting in a manner contrary to both racing's best interests as well as NYRA's.

Some of the blame for situations like this lay in the hands of your employer, an OTB in the State of NY, that has a proven track record of working in opposition to both the racing fan in NY State and NYRA. It is OTB that forced the recent increase in takeout, as NYRA was forced to allow this in order to implement their rebate program, and this was the compromise they had to make with NY State legislature due to interference from the NY State OTBs. This is the same OTB structure that not only allowed the Pick-6 scandal to occur but also encouraged the payment of the participants. But, of course, it is NYRA that is " scandal plagued ".

I do blame the way the VLT's are set up for the lack of promotion of RACING at RACETRACKS.

I cannot speak to issues of OTB's and their political decisions. I am so low on the employment food chain that it's fair to say that I have absolutely NOTHING to do with decision making.

[blackthroatedwind]

Thanks, good info. I guess one could say the increased purses due to slots led to better racing which in turn led to more simulcast revenue. As far as on track increases, I wonder how much of the increased on-track handle was directly due to money the track gave away to slot players. Don't forget, $100 given away can easily be rolled over into $300-$500 through the windows. Regardless, it is great to see that not only are they trying to create players from their slot customers, but that at least in some ways they are having success.

By the way, Jesus Christ did not write the article, Steve CRIST did. However, I can understand how someone could confuse him with another figure that at least some people refer to as the " savior ".

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Also, imagine how much more difficult Magic Johnson and Larry Bird would have been to promote if their owners continually forced them to dress up in pink costumes.

with satin bow ties, and that stupid poof on top of their hat?! lol

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

There is absolutely no way to promote the jockeys as long as there is no way for the common fan to tell which jockey is which each race without looking at their form. As long as the jockeys are wearing the owners silks they are not promotable. Unless they come up with a way to differentiate the jockeys by a quick glance while keeping the owners happy there is little to no chance of promoting the jockeys. Imagine if Larry Bird or Magic Johnson wore a helmet and goggles and came out in a different color jersey with a different number every game. Even they would have been difficult to promote in that situation.

The very notion that promoting riders will revitalize the game is borderline insane. Don't get me wrong, I understand the riders have a certain amount of popularity, but they are simply not what either draws fans to the game or increases ( most importantly ) handle. If the game has stars it is most certainly the horses. But, even publicizing them isn't necessarily the way to increase the health of the game. I suppose that one could argue that at least jockeys stay around, and the supposed stars of our game are fleeting at best, but the simple fact is the people interested in racing because of either specific horses or riders do very little, at best, to aid the health of the game. Simply put, racing is driven by wagering, and really very little else. Sure it is wonderful to see enthusiast crowds at Saratoga and Del Mar, but unless they are wagering they do very little to add to the health of the game, except for appearance sake only.

Once again, the answer is to educate, and to do it intelligently. I would bet my last dollar that our Siros Seminars have added more revenue to the game than any interview with Edgar Prado or Jerry Bailey ever did.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Linny

I do blame the way the VLT's are set up for the lack of promotion of RACING at RACETRACKS.

The one and only time I walked through the Racino was the first August it was open. I was with a friend of mine who had a vested interest in seeing how a racetrack ran a casino. We walked through the Racino and the most striking thing, to me at least, was that it was extraordinarily difficult to figure out how to exit the slot parlor into the racetrack. He basically explained to me that it is the design of these places NOT to let you find the racetrack.

Pretty sad.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The very notion that promoting riders will revitalize the game is borderline insane. Don't get me wrong, I understand the riders have a certain amount of popularity, but they are simply not what either draws fans to the game or increases ( most importantly ) handle. If the game has stars it is most certainly the horses. But, even publicizing them isn't necessarily the way to increase the health of the game. I suppose that one could argue that at least jockeys stay around, and the supposed stars of our game are fleeting at best, but the simple fact is the people interested in racing because of either specific horses or riders do very little, at best, to aid the health of the game. Simply put, racing is driven by wagering, and really very little else. Sure it is wonderful to see enthusiast crowds at Saratoga and Del Mar, but unless they are wagering they do very little to add to the health of the game, except for appearance sake only.

Once again, the answer is to educate, and to do it intelligently. I would bet my last dollar that our Siros Seminars have added more revenue to the game than any interview with Edgar Prado or Jerry Bailey ever did.

Agree with most of what you are saying but I think you are underrating the potential those enthusiast crowds can have. Give them a reason to follow the sport on days they aren't at the track and for many of them the wagering will continue to increase. Then things like your Siro's Seminar and the Youbet show become important catalysts to increase their wagering. By no means am I saying the jockeys are what is going to give them a reason to follow the sport. All I was saying is that there is absolutely no way of promoting the jockeys when they are wearing a different costume every race making it difficult for the common fan to differentiate between them. So as long as that is the case any efforts to promote the jockeys are a waste of time and resources.

[theiman]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Thanks, good info. I guess one could say the increased purses due to slots led to better racing which in turn led to more simulcast revenue. As far as on track increases, I wonder how much of the increased on-track handle was directly due to money the track gave away to slot players. Don't forget, $100 given away can easily be rolled over into $300-$500 through the windows. Regardless, it is great to see that not only are they trying to create players from their slot customers, but that at least in some ways they are having success.

By the way, Jesus Christ did not write the article, Steve CRIST did. However, I can understand how someone could confuse him with another figure that at least some people refer to as the " savior ".

oops about the Christ and Crist booboo. I edited it. Must have been the long hair similarities?

[ALostTexan]

Originally Posted by Holland Hacker

Steve, Andy & Other New York Residents.

Does it make sense for you to write you legislators? I think it might help them make a better informed decision if they receive correspondence from the people who put them in Albany that also go to the track. I know everyone is busy but it doesn't have to be anything long. Perhaps even a short e-mail that points out some of the shortcomings or faults in some of the proposals as we see them.

I plan on sending an e-mail to some of the key legislators, including the Gov's office but I do not live in NY so it may fall on deaf ears. The only thing I can threaten is to stop going to the NY tracks and stop investing in NY Breds.

Even if someone could draft a form letter that people could send to their legislators and the govenor that could have an impact.

Just a thought.

Holland,

I live in Arizona, but plan on drafting a letter to some of those key legislators in NY over this. While the tracks are in New York, they need to hear from the rest of the world who bet the races, and therefore contribute to NY Racing.

I spend a great deal of time keeping up with legislative issues, and this is one that is the hottest right now...

ALostTexan

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Agree with most of what you are saying but I think you are underrating the potential those enthusiast crowds can have. Give them a reason to follow the sport on days they aren't at the track and for many of them the wagering will continue to increase. Then things like your Siro's Seminar and the Youbet show become important catalysts to increase their wagering. By no means am I saying the jockeys are what is going to give them a reason to follow the sport. All I was saying is that there is absolutely no way of promoting the jockeys when they are wearing a different costume every race making it difficult for the common fan to differentiate between them. So as long as that is the case any efforts to promote the jockeys are a waste of time and resources.

I can agree with all that. My biggest problem is that when racetracks find a way to lure people to the track they do nothing to even attempt to educate them about the game. Someone may come to the track to see Bernardini or a certain rider but the best way to get them to come back is to help them cash a bet or two. That's what hooks 'em.

For every Brad Thomas, who is beyond excellent, there are five Jan Rushtons.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The very notion that promoting riders will revitalize the game is borderline insane. Don't get me wrong, I understand the riders have a certain amount of popularity, but they are simply not what either draws fans to the game or increases ( most importantly ) handle. If the game has stars it is most certainly the horses. But, even publicizing them isn't necessarily the way to increase the health of the game. I suppose that one could argue that at least jockeys stay around, and the supposed stars of our game are fleeting at best, but the simple fact is the people interested in racing because of either specific horses or riders do very little, at best, to aid the health of the game. Simply put, racing is driven by wagering, and really very little else. Sure it is wonderful to see enthusiast crowds at Saratoga and Del Mar, but unless they are wagering they do very little to add to the health of the game, except for appearance sake only.

Once again, the answer is to educate, and to do it intelligently. I would bet my last dollar that our Siros Seminars have added more revenue to the game than any interview with Edgar Prado or Jerry Bailey ever did.

I agree. I think the horses are definitely cabable of getting people in the door (eg. Smarty Jones) way more than a jockey ever will, but the product has to be built around both being friendly and informative to the people they draw in so the noise doesn't end when the star that brought them in retires. From being fairly new to the experience of wagering, one thing that I think could drastically help are not only the seminars on handicapping the actual races but an understanding of designing your bets and using the computer to make them. Windows aren't very friendly IMO.

I think TVG is on the right track. They are teaching people how to bet pick 4's and 6's on a budget of $50 for pick 4's and $120 for pick 6's. This method is the fast track to success and should bring thousands, if not millions of new fans to the game.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

jockey trading cards
nascar esk patches on the jocks
and saddle towels
MORE HANDICAP RACES
stripper pole in the winners circle...

the real way to bring gamblers to horse raceing is.........................
TREATING THEM LIKE A CASINO PLAYER..REAL COMPS REAL HOSTS....NO OTHER WAY WILL WORK..

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

There is absolutely no way to promote the jockeys as long as there is no way for the common fan to tell which jockey is which each race without looking at their form. As long as the jockeys are wearing the owners silks they are not promotable. Unless they come up with a way to differentiate the jockeys by a quick glance while keeping the owners happy there is little to no chance of promoting the jockeys. Imagine if Larry Bird or Magic Johnson wore a helmet and goggles and came out in a different color jersey with a different number every game. Even they would have been difficult to promote in that situation.

Jockeys cant have their own silks. They are EMPLOYEES remember?

[Cannon Shell]

Plus as great as some riders are their skills are not readily apparent like an athlete in another sport. What makes the top jockeys that, is a great sense of timing, patience, and hands. All of which are hard to quantify or identify.

The truth is that promoting jockeys or trainers or any other persons wont work, because even novices understand that the horses talent is what is important and readily apparent.

[Holland Hacker]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Jockeys cant have their own silks. They are EMPLOYEES remember?

Are they employees or independent contractors?

[Cannon Shell]

I had a conversation with a few other trainers this morning about a variety of topics including slots and the pros and cons. We are very worried as a group about what is going to happen once the tracks start raking in huge profits from the slots despite the raise of purses. I personally feel that the tracks will even be more independent and instead of coming together to solve some of the industrywide problems they will just try to throw money at them. Tracks in general have treated horsemen as a necessary evil when we were their only product so you can understand how we feel we will be viewed as we are marginalized. However if casinos are allowed in our markets without us being involved, it would surely lead to the rapid demise of the tracks. Being a gambling venture, we need to compete on the same level as the casinos. I personally have no problem with slots players not playing the races as long as we are seeing a portion of their revenue. Instead of going after slots players we should go after people who have not yet become gamblers and stress the positives of betting on our sport. Make them horseplayers before they become slot players or poker players. I would say the typical slot player is not smart or lucrative enough to become a sucessful horse player any way.

I think that horseracing in general has done a terrible job with the TV networks. We should give all our big races to ESPN when the contracts expire. Let them promote the sport year round and stop whining about overruns from little league baseball and such. Remember before last year ESPN was covering the BC preps in a half assed manner because another network covered it. If we were to give them the Triple Crown and BC I am sure they would do a much better job of televising the preps. Make ESPN and their family of networks the horse racing channel. ESPN gives you great demographics and really can help "make" a sport. Look at Poker. The current TC situation is a sad joke. The 1st 2 races on one network and the Belmont on another. I know one thing, if ESPN had the Derby we would have gotten a whole lot more coverage of races like the FL Derby and AR Derby. Maybe I'm wrong but as the networks fade ESPN will only get bigger.

I also think ESPN can help us in another area where racing is missing out badly. That is promoting the sport to the increasing hispanic population. There are so many prominent hispanics that are key players in our sport why are we not actively promoting to these people? If you watch ESPN sportscenter in the morning you see them promoting ESPN desportes every day. Racing could be a natural fit for this portion of the network which is looking hard for content.

But of course there are great ideas like the jockey cam and free t-shirts.

[estreetposse]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

I think TVG is on the right track. They are teaching people how to bet pick 4's and 6's on a budget of $50 for pick 4's and $120 for pick 6's. This method is the fast track to success and should bring thousands, if not millions of new fans to the game.

I agree this helps but I think it helps the casual player who plays maybe a couple of times month or so and again on major race days. The new player or the ones who play on TC days(mostly just the derby) have no clue what multi-race wagering or even exotics are. They play $2W on their favorite number or a familiar name, most newbies probably don't bring $50 to the track. As in all aspects of education, a foundation needs to be layed and fundamentals must be practiced & reinforced. I think the players that benefit most from BTW, Crist, Beyer etc. are ones that have a good foundation and can derive their own opinions from the knowledge of the pro cappers. The two-a-years and newbie bettors probably will not benefit from these guys(& gals) as much or at all by not knowing the basics of horseracing. Quite possibly the tracks and OTB's could encourage some form of education...Not handicapping seminars, just plain old fashioned schooling at the track or before Nick & Tom give a Track Fact Salute on the weekends.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Holland Hacker

Are they employees or independent contractors?

Depends on if they are writing checks or depositing them.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Being a gambling venture, we need to compete on the same level as the casinos. I personally have no problem with slots players not playing the races as long as we are seeing a portion of their revenue. Instead of going after slots players we should go after people who have not yet become gamblers and stress the positives of betting on our sport. Make them horseplayers before they become slot players or poker players. I would say the typical slot player is not smart or lucrative enough to become a sucessful horse player any way.

Horseman organizations have long opposed takeout reductions...which is absolutely essential.....and the draconian takeout is really the main reason why betting on horses is considered a suckers game by so many....and so tremendously few professional horseplayers exist.

I think if horseman really want to see what you say happen...they ought not be there to oppose takeout reductions...in fact, they should lobby for them.

From an economical standpoint---I think takeout reductions will help everyone.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Jockeys cant have their own silks. They are EMPLOYEES remember?

So were Magic Johnson and Larry Bird.