Vic Had A Stroke?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Yep when all the trainers he rode all those winners for move he can rule the fair circuit.. Have you looked at the state of Cal. racing? Have you looked at the fields? I mean seriously Delmar's opening day card is like a kyiosk not a boutique.

No knock on Vic or Joel.. They are swimming upstream.. The horses are moving east with their trainers and owners. You will always be able to find a good live mount in Ca. just not at the race track.

You say that trainers and owners are moving East. I guess that could happen at some point but it hasn't happened yet and I don't see it happening any time soon. The only guy that has moved is Paulo Lobo (not exactly a big-name trainer). If you look at the leading trainers at Hollywood Park (O'Neil, Sadler, Baffert, Mitchell, Hollendorfer, Ellis, Jones, etc.), none of those guys are planning on leaving any time soon. So your assessment that the horses, trainers, and owners are moving east, is not correct.

Racing is certainly not doing great in Southern California, but if you look at their numbers, I don't think the numbers are down any more than anywhere else. I think the handle at Hollywood Park was down 10% or something like that. I don't think that's any worse than anywhere else.

If racing goes downhill so badly in Southern California that the purses drop in half, then I agree with you that guys would start moving away. But we're nowhere near that point yet and I don't think it will happen.

There are actually just as many top trainers shipping into California as shipping out. Pletcher ships to California quite a bit and he even keeps a string here for alot of the year. Guys like Mott, Romans, and Clement are shipping in for big races. Biancone is now here full time, although he's not nearly as big as he used to be.

Anyway, I don't see any imminent demise of California racing.

And with regards to Rosario, now that he is doing better than ever and was just leading rider at HP, I think he would have to be out of his mind to leave.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

First, really glad your setback was so minor. You certainly sound at full strength in this thread.

I've never really understood the I-wouldn't-live-anywhere-else mentality of some Californians. Doesn't smog, traffic, and crime count for anything? I spent 6 years in San Diego and 2 in Los Angeles, all of it near the ocean, so I'm not talking blindly here. But I've found equal satisfaction and beauty elsewhere and have zero desire to return to Calif.

I think some So. Californians build up this horror of cold weather to monumental heights. There are pleasures and tradeoffs with almost every locale. I'm curious where else you've lived, Vic.

--Dunbar

I doubt Vic meant that literally. As you know, he's the agent for a guy that's on a pace to make $12 million this year. Rosario gets 10% of that which comes out to $1.2 million. Vic gets 25% of that. Vic is doing extremely well. If Hollywood Park, Santa Anita, and Del Mar all when out of business and closed and Rosario was forced to go East, I would have to wager that Vic would be heading East with Rosario.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I doubt Vic meant that literally. As you know, he's the agent for a guy that's on a pace to make $12 million this year. Rosario gets 10% of that which comes out to $1.2 million. Vic gets 25% of that. Vic is doing extremely well. If Hollywood Park, Santa Anita, and Del Mar all when out of business and closed and Rosario was forced to go East, I would have to wager that Vic would be heading East with Rosario.

This may spawn a new thread, and no offense to Vic, but I've never understood jock agents getting 25% of the cut...and I've worked for a "cut' or percent my whole life.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I doubt Vic meant that literally. As you know, he's the agent for a guy that's on a pace to make $12 million this year. Rosario gets 10% of that which comes out to $1.2 million. Vic gets 25% of that. Vic is doing extremely well. If Hollywood Park, Santa Anita, and Del Mar all when out of business and closed and Rosario was forced to go East, I would have to wager that Vic would be heading East with Rosario.

It isn't 10% of everything, at least in Illinois it isn't, they only take 5% of 2nd and 3rd

And you aren't including jock mount that they also get 25% of that...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by GBBob

This may spawn a new thread, and no offense to Vic, but I've never understood jock agents getting 25% of the cut...and I've worked for a "cut' or percent my whole life.

Understanding of finances is not a jockey strong suit. Hell some get 30%

[chucklestheclown]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Why are we all obsessed with the fall of CALI racing? How about the fall of racing in Kentucky or NY? Anyone take a look at some of the cards at BEL this meet? Especially someone who remembers what it was like 10 or 20 year ago.

If I were Stauffer and Rosario and I decided to move tack, it wouldn't be to NY.

I'd head on up to Woobine, which, presently, has the best racing in the country. POLY and TURF up the wazoo, LARGE fields AND LARGE PURSES. And, just about the most pathetic group of jocks, top to bottom, you'd find anywhere. In fact, you'd be hardpressed to find a worst colony at some of the bush tracks. Head up there for the summer; win a ton of races; make a ton of money.

If CALI racing dies, then Kentucky and NY racing is right behind it.

Noone else asked so I will. Did Obama buy Canada today?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by GBBob

This may spawn a new thread, and no offense to Vic, but I've never understood jock agents getting 25% of the cut...and I've worked for a "cut' or percent my whole life.

With a theatrical agent or a literary agent, the agent may have 50 clients. Jockey agents only have one client and they spend all their time working for that one client. That is why they get 25% and not 10%. There are a few jock agents that may have 2 jocks but most of them have just one. Many of the big jocks won't let their agent have a 2nd jock.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Scav

It isn't 10% of everything, at least in Illinois it isn't, they only take 5% of 2nd and 3rd

And you aren't including jock mount that they also get 25% of that...

I don't know what the exact percentage is on 2nds, 3rds, 4ths, and 5ths. I think the jocks out here get paid 10% for 2nds and 3rds. They may get slightly less, but they may still bill you for the difference. It's true that they don't normally get paid their 10% for 4ths and 5ths, but if it's in a big stakes race, they may still get it if they bill you directly for it. The jock's agent will actually send you a bill for it. For example, I remember that Gomez rode a horse for us in a stakes race a few years ago and I think the horse ran either 3rd or 4th. I remember we got a bill directly from Gomez' agent so that he would get the whole 10%.

Vic could answer the question as to exactly what they get on 2nds, 3rds, 4ths, and 5ths in stakes races and non-stakes races.

You are right that since the jocks don't get 10% for 4ths and 5ths in non-stakes races, that they will actually make slightly less than 10% of their total earnings for the year. But most of their money comes from the wins, 2nds, and 3rds. If a jock's mounts earn $12 million in purses, he will probably end up with a little less than $1.2 million. He may end up with $1.1 million or so and then his agent gets 25% of that.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I don't know what the exact percentage is on 2nds, 3rds, 4ths, and 5ths. I think the jocks out here get paid 10% for 2nds and 3rds. They may get slightly less, but they may still bill you for the difference. It's true that they don't normally get paid their 10% for 4ths and 5ths, but if it's in a big stakes race, they may still get it if they bill you directly for it. The jock's agent will actually send you a bill for it. For example, I remember that Gomez rode a horse for us in a stakes race a few years ago and I think the horse ran either 3rd or 4th. I remember we got a bill directly from Gomez' agent so that he would get the whole 10%.

Vic could answer the question as to exactly what they get on 2nds, 3rds, 4ths, and 5ths in stakes races and non-stakes races.

You are right that since the jocks don't get 10% for 4ths and 5ths in non-stakes races, that they will actually make slightly less than 10% of their total earnings for the year. But most of their money comes from the wins, 2nds, and 3rds. If a jock's mounts earn $12 million in purses, he will probably end up with a little less than $1.2 million. He may end up with $1.1 million or so and then his agent gets 25% of that.

We only bill for 2nd or 3rd and only in graded stakes with a purse of 100k or greater.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

We only bill for 2nd or 3rd and only in graded stakes with a purse of 100k or greater.

Vic, what does the jock get for 2nds and 3rds in non-stakes races?

By the way, can't you you guys bill for a 4th place finish in a big race. I remember getting billed by Gomez' agent for a placing in a stakes race. I thought it was for a 4th place finish in a $1 million race but now that I think about it, it may have been for a different race. He rode a horse for us that finished 3rd in a $150,000 race. That may have been the race he billed us for. I can't remember.

If you guys run 4th in a Breeder's Cup race, you wouldn't bill the owner? Fourth place in the Classic pays around $300,000.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

We only bill for 2nd or 3rd and only in graded stakes with a purse of 100k or greater.

Vic, can you explain this more? Also, a losing mount for Rosario, is it the same for a Claiming 8k as it is a nw1? I'll explain after your response (it isn't a trick question, trust me )

[Round Pen]

Originally Posted by freddymo

NY is operating well without slots. The fields are OK and there is a reasonable amount of stock around. Woodbine is 3 years away from people getting wiped out and slot dollars either running out or state governments will grab the money to deal with economic issues. If you think WB looks like the mecca of racing in 09 fine but have a little forsight NY will always be the best circuit to race (save the winter)

Freedy your way off base here within 2 years Maidens Will be running for 100k, THere are currently 2000+ slot machines at woodbine and they are constantly expanding to keep up with Demand. HECK WEG is in the process of starting a 1 Billion dollar expansion Called "WOODBINE LIVE" When that is done there will be no other place like it in the World.

Fat Man has got it right if a jock were to Leave Cali or Ky or NY Woodbine would Be the place to relocate Because things are on the upswing there for the forseeable future.
Thats also why you are seeing so Many Trainers from the States Applying for stalls there.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Round Pen

Freedy your way off base here within 2 years Maidens Will be running for 100k, THere are currently 2000+ slot machines at woodbine and they are constantly expanding to keep up with Demand. HECK WEG is in the process of starting a 1 Billion dollar expansion Called "WOODBINE LIVE" When that is done there will be no other place like it in the World.

Fat Man has got it right if a jock were to Leave Cali or Ky or NY Woodbine would Be the place to relocate Because things are on the upswing there for the forseeable future.
Thats also why you are seeing so Many Trainers from the States Applying for stalls there.

Woodbine is an incredible place.. thier expansion plans are also quite awesome. If anything, US tracks should try to model their business off Woodbine, they are one of the very few who get it.